Ban Appeal - Silicon

[Evil_Sarevok]

Ok so a few questions for followups and whatnot:

3.5 Silicons

1. Don’t kill Asimov silicons for trying to stop an execution. It’s required of them by their laws.
2. Asimov silicons that are purposefully antagonistic for no reason (bolting security, getting in the way, etc) to security should be locked down or disabled, and a-helped about immediately.

(I believe this is further clarified in 6.2.4 but just to be sure)

This seems outdated due to the use of crewzimov, however my question would be thus, if you actively see an antag getting harmbattoned, assumption is that you are permitted to remove and bolt security from the antag, provided you have not seen their cause for harm?  Assuming this also be the case if they have syndicate contraband but have not caused harm due to disregarding space law.

5.3.2 - All Other Antagonists
It’s generally considered poor sportsmanship to attempt to overpower the entire station and crew; it unnecessarily prolongs a round when no amount of quality RP is likely to be had. If you’ve completed your objectives and the only thing left that you can think of to do is to kill everyone, it’s time to pack up and end the round.

So we had a wizard doing this, with an apprentice the other day dragged out the round for the length of a normal extended, was slowly killing the crew off for arbitrary reasons, and also powergaming like hell with gear, guns, genetic boosts (or so I was told) and implants, no admins available during this round, would this have been punishable?

6.4.1 - Drones

Interaction with any carbon or silicon other than another drone isstrictly forbidden

Does this include pAI interactions, due to the ability to converse?


Quick breeze over the Victoria Boyer situation again because I don't think she treated me fairly at all.

So after doing my virologist round and learning the 12bb (and it took me until 30 mins towards the end to finish it off due to Medical being a graveyard and being utter fuckuseless at Chemistry), I finally learned how to put it together, and started immunising the crew, starting with Victoria as she'd been late to join the shift, and was late to help me in my endeavours, thus I'd decreed her patient zero! (no complaints during injection phase), I'd injected and immunised most of the crew I could find around medical, the only detractor was a miner who stood there for the injection then proceeded to scream over comms of "no consent" even though I'd stopped them and informed them in the hall that I was giving out injections.  I was then asked by Victoria to speak to people before injecting, which I did.

I then injected Mike in the bar who seemed fine with it, causing Victoria to go on a rampage, pull out her telescopic baton, smack me over the head, and demand my ID.  I'm going to say that is clear violation of 7.3 in the main section as an unfair action as I'd done what was asked.

She then proceeded to chase me around the station and into medical, so I gave her a healthy dose of Neurotoxin, left her comm outside, and shoved her into the locker within one of the medical side rooms, knowing that she would be found pretty quick and long enough for me to get to a pod away from her bullshit, as we had other active medical staff that could unlock it, course also took her PDA to prevent further communication and turned it off.

Main reason I didnt take her into maintenance was that I did want her to be found at some point (10 mins til the end of the shift or so), not just lost to the ether, or dead, but was still punished for that, heck as I've stated she clearly ahelped specifically for a ban as I've got evidence via byond due to a quip she sent before blocking.

I'd like clarification on that one, as there are no rules against injecting/immunising people, if I'd have meme'd the CMO into maintenance and welded/walled her off I can see that as being outwardly griefing but not the way I did it, we had other staff who could unlock the door/locker.

Further clarification on that one if you please as this is what got me the month ban, I'm also stating meta-grudge due to the message I was given via byond.  Posted below.

I have different personalities I go for, for my humanoid, Cyborg and AI (heck I even act slightly differently as malf as I consider it a different software update), so the meta is strong with this issue.

That's me for questions for now however, I'll have to take the 0th laws more strictly in future, the only thing I would ask is that there is a DO NOT STATE THIS LAW on law 0s rules just to clarify.

Breakfast and Warframe ahoy.

[Tekoro]

If you want my personal opinion, I feel like that whole Victoria Boyer situation was blown out of proportions. We have virologists injecting shit into people everytime and heads never do anything about it.
Yet, it was a mistake on your part there, if she told you to stop, stop. The person who stood there and let you inject them, then right after yelled, was Amelia Aurae and they also contacted me saying how she didn't actually stand there so you could inject her, but her graphics card fucked up, but that doesn't matter in any case
As for the metagrudge, unless it happens in-game I don't know what to tell you, that's a statement outside the game. Some admins might actually hold them accountable for it, but it's outside of the game so, we shouldn't care.

As for your questions.

1.
Yes, guidelines for silicons are outdated in that regard.
If security is harmbatonning a criminal, feel free to lock them away from security. Cause of harm -> Threat for your laws. Just don't keep them locked away for literally forever, wait til the criminal is safe and away from security, then let security go. That would be the operating procedure I'd say suits best our ruleset.

2.
Honestly, depends on the antag. That's a guideline, and normally I enforce guidelines just like rules, but without the correct information I can't really say what would be our/my judgement. So I'll just lay a few scenarios inherent to that.
Antag has done objectives, is going around killing people and delaying shuttle <- Very bad.
Antag still has to do objectives, could do them whenever and is delaying shuttle to RP / do whatever <- Frowned upon.
Antag still has to do objectives, steal objective is missing and he's looking for it so he has to delay shuttle <- Completely fine.

3.
Yes, drones can only communicate with other drones. Even if pAI can talk to them.
If this wouldn't be the case, that guideline would need to be removed/modified.

Victoria Boyer clarification:

I honestly feel like a ban wouldn't've been warranted for that, it's a damn IC issue.


Also sorry if it's not my usual essay but I'm doing other stuff at the moment, was told you wanted my feedback so I tried to get on it as fast as possible.

[Evil_Sarevok]

Yep, that's the clarification I needed, thank you.

Boyer didn't actually tell me to stop, she told me to ask the crew member first, which I did but then proceeded to still go nuts, heck the guy who I injected last actually tried to help me get away from her.

I'm hoping this gets looked into further so I'm not sat on my hands for nothing, over nothing.

Still no word from the original admin whether this time also incorporates the silicon ban though, could do with more responses from the admins who issued the bans as the admin I spoke to before the ban was issued (whose name I cant remember anymore) wasn't the same as who issued the ban, which was Rage.

[Tekoro]

If it's not looked into, guess I'll just bump it myself to the admins.

[SwtSug3742]

Okay, I'm just going to throw in my two cents here since I'm here. Yes, I did take things a little out of bounds, but so did he by removing my PDA AND my headset. I get that he wanted to avoid me, I get it. But to do both things on a GREEN shift as well as sedate me was more unfair then what I did, I think. I could have easily thrown him in jail if I wanted to since I have access to the brig as the CMO. But no, he had to be difficult and run away. I was merely going to take his ID and take away his medbay access and let him walk away. But when he sedated me, I was pissed. And then he decides to be a dick and take my PDA AND headset, preventing me from communicating that I was locked in the patient locker. That being said, there was no reason to take both. At all.


There, I've thrown in my two cents.

[Evil_Sarevok]

Okay, I'm just going to throw in my two cents here since I'm here. Yes, I did take things a little out of bounds, but so did he by removing my PDA AND my headset. I get that he wanted to avoid me, I get it. But to do both things on a GREEN shift as well as sedate me was more unfair then what I did, I think. I could have easily thrown him in jail if I wanted to since I have access to the brig as the CMO. But no, he had to be difficult and run away. I was merely going to take his ID and take away his medbay access and let him walk away. But when he sedated me, I was pissed. And then he decides to be a dick and take my PDA AND headset, preventing me from communicating that I was locked in the patient locker. That being said, there was no reason to take both. At all.


There, I've thrown in my two cents.

I was going to wait and see if there was any further admin development but not as of yet.

So what you've got is this, threat of jail, removal of ID and you've mentioned green shift.

Literally nothing within space law that you could have arrested me for, nor any reason to remove my ID/access rights to my job as Virologist in that instance.

What you've got to understand is IC character interactions which went as follows in this order of escalation:

1. Virologist makes virus for crew improvement.
2. After a number of injections and a single complaint, CMO asks Virologist to speak to ensure he speaks to crew before injecting.
3. Virologist complies, speaks to crew and gives injection.
4. CMO then beats Virologist over the head with a Telescopic Baton in the bar, and demands ID.
5. Virologist escalates after being chased by non-lethally pacifying CMO with Neurotoxin.
6. CMO screams she has been drugged.
7. Virologist attends escape pod.
8. Medical Doctor who had prior assaulted the Virologist with harm intent after hearing CMO screams for Virologist's death.
9. Cyborg gets law 1ed to bolt the pod down.

Crew are allowed to escalate with non-lethal force IC, similarly they are allowed to escalate with lethal force in a similar instance.

So the end result is, you got robusted for escalating without a real reason to do so, I removed your communications and PDA to prevent further grief, as well as your telescopic baton, which is permitted as an IC interaction.

Issue is you got angry OOC and made a mountain out of an ant hill, so I've now been banned for what, two weeks now for a legal IC reaction against a head of staff who was overzealous.  You shouldn't be beating your staff just because you feel like you can.

[Ragolution]

Yeah putting someone in a locker or a pod and stripping them of all their access is an asshole thing to do.

Violation of Rule 0 my dude.

[Evil_Sarevok]

I was in the pod, not the CMO, so not an infraction.

CMO was trying to strip me of all my access, I stripped them of their PDA, that sounds like the same thing was being done, I was just better at doing it at the time apparently.

[SwtSug3742]

I didn't beat you. If I felt like it, I would have. But no, I didn't. Clearly, if I had, then I would be banned permanently for my actions. Personally, I think you should rethink everything. But you won't, because you're not getting things done your way.

[Evil_Sarevok]

[quote="SwtSug3742" pid='2781' dateline='1509210219']
Personally, I think you should rethink everything. But you won't, because you're not getting things done your way.
[/quote]

I'm trying to have an adult conversation while detailing the instigation of the issue (which was yours), while also engaging in learning regarding the silicon issue.

While you might not agree in having an adult conversation and prefer to sling insults or meta salt, that's fine but you don't have to be in the discussion.

Sadly in this case we had a player who instigated an IC altercation, lost, got robusted, then cried to an admin. However due to lack of questioning from staff, decided to go after the person who "won" the altercation, rather than the instigator, who lost, and then cried victim.

As for the whole locker thing, I may be new but I've seen this:

"Tip of the round: The resist button will allow you to resist out of handcuffs, being buckled to a chair or bed, out of locked lockers and more. Whenever you're stuck, try resisting!"

Maybe you're not adept enough after all this time to know this, I don't know.

Either way, if you're not here for an adult discussion, or learning, which I'd rather commit to, then please do not join the conversation. Thanks.