Discord - Unknown - Ban appeal for private criticism of an admin.

[Nik707]

Pretty much same as both fract and kevinz. Neither party is 100% free of fault, but the initiation of "mind your own business" to an admin doing his duty puts this pretty hard in your own court.

[Baneicorn]

Threatening a ban is not doing his job, and I was entirely within my rights to tell him to mind his own business - From your own most recent announcement, he was, in fact, 'piling on' to an already existing conversation, thus making it worse. If he had issued an actual warning, that would've been completely acceptable. Per said announcement, however, what he did was intentionally make the situation worse by both failing to appropriate fulfill his duties and instead choosing to threaten someone already in the process of being informed by other players. I also was not rude in any way, and did not make any threats.

Unlike Geemie. An admin needs to know not to threaten someone immediately, and when such behavior is acceptable. This was not that time; The consensus among you is clear already about that. Whether or not you feel like I went overboard by telling him to mind his own business, he DEFINITELY went overboard by repeatedly threatening me with no discernible reason. This is unacceptable behavior from ANYONE, but most certainly from an admin. Abuse of power sound familiar? And yes, I do realize that two wrongs don't make a right - However, Geemie had already threatened me and kicked me from the server for no real reason, so I had every right to be upset. Most people would've been cussing and screeching insults at that point, but I did not. I also do not know what the 'admin forums' you keep talking about are, so honestly, expecting me to reflexively know what and how to use them is ridiculous.

Being an admin does not give you the right to treat people like shit. I admit that I could've handled my part slightly better, but do realize that I kept my tone and language professional, and attempted to have a conversation with him - not insult him or threaten him, like he did me. I also didn't continue pressing the point that he should 'mind his business', which it seems to me all of you are far too heavily focused on.

Stop shielding your friend. Do your jobs. Explain to him what his job is. Pull your collective heads out of the sand and stop trying to justify his behavior. Telling someone to 'mind their own business' is not an insult. It is not 'digging my own grave', nor is it disrespectful. You yourselves posted an announcement minutes before the situation occurred that flat-out said what Geemie did was unacceptable. Here, I'll post it;

'Hey everyone. After a long discussion last night, the admin team have worked together on this announcement which will detail a few changes in policy, and some reasoning for the changes. We all love Citadel. We think that most parts of it are great, despite some of those parts being issues. But we all agree on one thing. The discord is, without a doubt, the worst part of it. Anyone who would join Citadel to see the discord first, would think it to be a much worse place than it is. So, this got us thinking on what we could do to solve this problem.

One of the large issues is that discord is instant and easy. Anyone can jump in on an argument or discussion and recite their own beliefs. This often results in, for example, arguments being railroaded by people weren't involved in some event which caused the argument, and often creates an echo-chamber of toxicity built by people who shouldn't be there in the first place. These long, drawn out arguments often just lead to personal attacks and, almost never lead to anything of any value. There is a general consensus that most of our most well behaved and generally most pleasant players are those whom don't often engage in discord. On the other hand, players viewed as less pleasant and less well behaved are frequently ones who engage in discord arguments, especially over topics that they have no relation to.

To that end, we want to change things. When an argument or complaint is brought to discord, it is to end the moment an admin gives an official response. Any further disagreements will be brought to the forums, where it's less likely to get diluted by unrelated parties. This is not an attempt to stop conversation, this is an attempt to move it to a medium that is easier to focus and that more requires people to think before they type, in a hope to reduce the argumentative and attacking nature of most discussions regarding complaints and policy'

Geemie added nothing constructive to the situation. He did not do his job. He did, however, railroad the conversation, and added to the echo chamber of toxicity by threatening and cajoling me with no prior warning for a relatively minor issue. I'd like to point out that this felt more like a personal attack than an official response, because, well, it kinda was. If you can't see and understand that he initiated the situation entirely through his own unprofessional behavior, then I see no reason to apologize for my part, as none of you appear to give a damn about the fact that one of your admins is abusing their power and repeatedly mishandling situations with players. One of my good friends also plays on this server, and has had his own issues with Geemie. I'm sure he'd be happy to throw his two cents in, here, as well.

[Baneicorn]

Yeah okay Geem didn't say it in the nicest way and "you need a bapping don't you" isn't what I think warnings should be worded as. Also, it'd be nice if Geem had taken the PMs with more tact, but still:

If you actively pm a staffmember telling them to mind their own business, YOU ARE DIGGING YOURSELF A GRAVE. You don't get to tell admins to not care, if you have a problem with how they're handling something you can talk to them in admin forum. Not give them the finger in DMs. Admin forum exists, or you could just ask what they meant by "bapping", say that wasn't the nicest way to say it, or any other way than seeking out conflict with staff over DMs. You dug yourself into this now you dig yourself out.

So yeah I wouldn't say this was handled well but you managed to make it far worse.
/shrug good job.

Uh, no, I think you're protecting a friend and thus ignoring his behavior in favor of trying to make me look worse, honestly. Everything you just said is beyond insulting - You are aware that he threatened someone without actually warning them about why he was threatening them, right? If he had actually done his duty and issued a properly worded warning, there would have been zero reason for me to become upset. If he hadn't kicked me for misunderstanding the meaning of 'bapping', I wouldn't have become upset and sent him a message. And if he had actually attempted to have a conversation, rather than simply flexing on me in private messages, the entire situation could've come to a respectable conclusion anyway.

You, however, seem both unwilling and unable to accept or recognize the faults in your staff - to the point of willful ignorance. However, part of me feels that this is simply 'people in power that have no right to be' protecting one another. You all appear to be protecting your friend, rather than actually handling the situation the way it should be.

Remove the Discord ban; This is an unacceptable reason to be banned in ANY community. A respectful disagreement with an admin in private messages does not equal abuse in any way.

[Ragolution]

I was originally on Reece's case for this but jesus christ you need to calm the fuck down. Your entire diatribe sounds like you're colored by your 'friend's' experiences. I, personally, spoke with Reece, as his friend and peer, and told him that he needs to relax with threatening to ban people before you laid the first brick in this little wall of text. Unfortunately, you have absolutely blown this out of proportion like a Malaysian dynamite fisherman who owes a federal loan.

You have absolutely zero right call anything 'toxic' or 'echo chamber' when the rhetoric you're spewing is some of the most caustic holier-than-thou check-your-morals shit I've seen since I was a devout Christian who went to mass every Sunday. You quoting that announcement is meaningless to me because it doesn't even REFER to your case. Your overinflated ego does not mean that our policy change of people starting shitstorms for no reason in public chats has any precedent for an administrator informing you that you're breaking the rules and your utter inability to listen to them, nevermind your complete lack of self-awareness.

You may think you're calling for the admins to "Do their jobs" but right now all you're doing is screeching and bawling like an over-entitled prat. Reece kicked you from the server because he didn't think you'd be compliant with his actions, and, ultimately, I agree with that call. The discussion you had between the two of you was out of line, but your actions absolutely baffle me, because you're acting about as tactful as when my eight your old bumps her head.

As a subtext; The admin-forum is a channel on discord we use to communicate and answer easy questions to players or have them 'discuss' problems that we don't feel necessitate PMs. You should familiarize yourself with it, as it's a very nice tool that we use rather frequently.

[kevinz000]

everything ragolution said and more, take a cup of iced water, christ.

[Baneicorn]

I was originally on Reece's case for this but jesus christ you need to calm the fuck down. Your entire diatribe sounds like you're colored by your 'friend's' experiences. I, personally, spoke with Reece, as his friend and peer, and told him that he needs to relax with threatening to ban people, but you have absolutely blown this out of proportion like a Malaysian dynamite fisherman.

You have absolutely zero right call anything 'toxic' or 'echo chamber' when the rhetoric you're spewing is some of the most caustic holier-than-thou check-your-morals shit I've seen since I was a devout Christian who went to mass every Sunday. You quoting that announcement is meaningless to me because it doesn't even REFER to your case. Your overinflated ego does not mean that our policy change of people starting shitstorms for no reason in public chats doesn't have any precedent for an administrator informing you that you're breaking the rules and your utter inability to listen to them, and complete lack of self-awareness.

You may think you're calling for the admins to "Do their jobs" but right now all you're doing is screeching and bawling like an over-entitled prat. Reece kicked you from the server because he didn't think you'd be compliant with his actions, and, ultimately, I agree with that call.

As a subtext; The admin-forum is a channel on discord we use to communicate and answer easy questions to players or have them 'discuss' problems that we don't feel necessitate PMs.

See, there's the disconnect. Right there. The entire point of this is because you and others are consistently failing to recognize the fact that Geemie did not, in fact, do his job - He did not warn me in any way. He simply threatened to kick/ban me with no explanation for why he might feel the need to do so. I am rightfully upset by the situation because, in your own words, he did NOT 'inform me that I'm breaking rules'. He went straight to threats with no explanation.

Whether you feel my ego is overinflated or not, Geemie was out of line from the moment he joined the conversation, and your failure to accept and acknowledge that simply proves that you - and the other admins - are simply rallying around a friend who has acted improperly to protect them from much-needed criticism.

Since you feel insulting me is the best way to handle the situation, you can go ahead and close this post. I won't be returning to Citadel, and I certainly won't be donating to the server ever again.

Edit: Oh, and to note, whether you consider the announcement applicable here or not, Geemie himself used that announcement as an excuse to ban me. So, yes, the announcement does most definitely apply to the situation, regardless of your feelings on the matter.

[kevinz000]

telling staff to mind their own business when you IC in discord is not a "respectful disagreement". I'm not protecting a friend, I'm telling you that while he didn't handle it well, you managed to make it far worse by continuing in DMs with that attitude instead of taking it to staff forums. so, see ragolution's response in your complaint.

[kevinz000]

merging complaint thread to this one.

[kevinz000]

How exactly does the merge button work I think I fucked something up...

[AvaricePleonexia]

I think it worked just fine, the merge.