Ban Appeal - Chefferz

[SoManyLayers]

But, if we're to address the particular instance revolving around what got you Permabanned in the end..
If I'm reading my facts right, the jist of it being over arresting Prax as a secborg with some OOC salt following.. but the more specific details err..
You, as a K9 Secborg were on Paladin and had received a vocalised threat from Prax over the radio implicating harm upon your person. Prax being a character with a stigma of their own about them as being particularly over the line aggressive in places, Jade having had first hand experience with this in the past of being validhunted by them (with a fair reason, albeit). Said threats were, rather distastefully, made from a bolted dorm room, to which one could proclaim this as an abuse of the dorms protection rules if we're fair.

Specifically, these threats.

I'm not going to dispute the legality of the threat in question, because yeah, it is illegal. Personally, I think the whole situation could have been avoided and, after a lengthy discussion with parties involved and having had time to reflect on all the information, I do not think this was intentional ban baiting on anyone's part. I believe this is a case of an IC issue blowing up rather severely into an OOC issue, mostly due to pent up frustration over other, valid OOC issues with players unrelated to this incident. To me, it looks like everyone feels like shit over it.

What is nebulous to me isn't the fact that she entered dorms to perform the arrest. She has admitted to having an OOC issue with Security players taking a break when things are quiet to ERP, despite the fact that officers can do this while they are on break and, outside of emergencies, are legally obligated to recieve break time during a shift, and I feel like that's an issue that should remain OOC. That's not really ban-worthy, though, and they did Ahelp it before entering the dorms to make sure they werent' breaking any rules to carry out the HoS' order.

I personally think a permaban is way out of line. A two week silicon ban and MAYBE a week off the RP server would be much more appropriate to this incident, if a ban is still deemed necessary, but honestly, I think there's been enough mutual suffering over the whole incident.

[Merne23]

Merne23

So much salt. Many wow.

First and foremost my opinion is that Raiq, themself, is not a shitter. Ana is annoying at times, prone to outbursts, screeching over Common, and sometimes is off ERPing when you need them. They toe the line for powergaming maybe? But that's a constant issue for everyone who knows what a decent amount of jobs do. Their behavior could be toned down a bit, but that's more of an IC concern than something worthy of a full on player complaint.
Shitter no, annoying and unlikeable up to the observer.

I'm not even gonna touch anything else I'm not involved in, so. Addressing the actual complaint made by Konigsegg.

The behavior you describe isn't toxic. Straight up not. Annoying, and distracting, but no, not toxic. Often I just go to Ana when people complain about it (as the Hoss, usually) and ask her to take it someplace else, or to stop. And for the most part they do. Problem solved. For continually making announcements over Common, for example about a blood drive at Medical, that's a legitimate reason to use the Common channel?

The worst I've seen Ana do with a wheelchair is use it to zoom around the station at the speed of sound, but I haven't seen her do that for awhile. Again, they sometimes toe the line for powergaming but this is an issue for anyone who can do jobs that they think aren't being done. So, unless you give other examples, I'm not really seeing it.
I have personally brought up my conundrums with them playing Ana as a borg and not as a borg, but that's not something you mention.


Calling out people going to the dorms is an IC issue. If you don't like people pointing out you're going to the Dorms then don't get caught. Simple as that. If you doubly so don't want to be called out as being in the Dorms, then don't play a job, or play a job that nobody gives a shit if leaves. Not Medical, Security, Engineering. These three departments always will and always do have work to do because of how the game functions and how people play their characters.
Threatening violence (with explosives no less) for most things will get you arrested anyway.


Also as to your second reply, for posterity:
Silicons. Are. Sentient. Beings. The only restrictions they have on their behaviors are Laws. Ana was on the Paladin lawset. She respected the authority of the Security Commander (her 'direct superior') and proceeded to arrest you, 'protecting the innocent' from a potential threat. That threat being explosive, and directed at one of the station's Silicons.

With smol snip at the end. Since I'm not keen on repeating myself too much, now to my thoughts on Raiq as opposed to me factually slashing apart bullshit.

Raiq isn't a bad player, at least not what I've seen of them. Prone to annoying behaviors and generally being disruptive to other players maybe, but nothing that can't be handled ICly. I've personally started feeling a slight resentment for how they behave, but only insomuch as they keep getting complained about which devolves into everyone involved throwing insults. But, this isn't the only character/player that this happens with.

They're usually crass, crude, and over the top, which I don't particularly agree with but I can understand. They consistently call out people going to the Dorms. They sometimes do jobs they haven't signed up for (like everyone else). They hold grudges against other characters/players, because they're a sentient being capable of forming their own judgements and deciding who they don't want to associate with.

I hate the idea that they can 'telecommute' to work by transferring into a Borg body. It's frankly midRP at best because giving nonSilicons Silicon Laws are strictly illegal (see: Compliance Disks). Becoming a borg or an AI isn't something that should be done willy-nilly and it sure as hell shouldn't be easy to undo. IPC/Synthomorphs need to have been active for a year before they can pass the SpessTuring. But enough of my soapboxing, their behavior as a borg is well below the usual tiers of badness.

Now you might be sensing a theme here: none of this is perma-worthy. This is undeserved, if not completely, but hardly enough to perma over. I don't know if it was baited but it was sure as hell a mistake. 

TL;DR: No, she shouldn't be permabanned. Look into this please.

[Pascal123]

As i said in the complaint thread.

"A threat was made after you interrupted me walking into dorms with this character, followed by saying "THIRD FUCK OF THE DAY ARVEDKI" (I did not ERP any of them, by the way. So already you're being a cunt in screaming bullshit like that and trying to claim i'm ERPing on the job, something you literally state you have issue with and tend to get on peoples asses about, often needlessly.) on commons, clearly subtly trying to cause problems and bring attention to it, causing an argument on security comms and common channel about you violating privacy laws, with you trying to skirt around that and play dumb.

You were threatened under law 5. To which I, As an officer. "Legitimate Authority" told them to chill out, they did. That was the end of it. They threw a total of one threat. Which they couldn't even act on if they wanted. Due to the limitations of their role, and location. I told you to chill out. You did not. That is a law Law 3 Violation. You whined and bitched, for minutes. Untill the HoS woke up from their Coma. Hoping to get, and, untill the HoS told you to detain them."

You were not "Ban-Baited". You chose to be hypocritical and interrupt an officer in the Dorm Rooms, while whining. The day previously. That Cyborgs should be free to ERP in dorms. After one literally beelined it to seek OOC protection after disobeying laws.

The threat was made because you were being a nuisance. The individual in question was told not to continue. (Threats in general are a fineable offense, at the discretion of officers.) You were told to drop it. You did not, you pushed for an arrest, out of pettyness, and likely hidden desire to interrupt. Over a situation which was resolved.

This ban has little if anything to do with that situation though, i believe. It mostly stems from the way admins view your actions in the past coupled with recent. As far as i know. Prax's player has not spoken in regards to whether they find a "Permaban" too harsh. I have, however. Stated that i did feel it was harsh, in several rather lengthy discussions, to several people. I still believe you should be punished for your behavior in the past two weeks. Especially if you think it was just "Banbaiting". i just don't believe it should be permanent.

[raiq]

I made a comment to you that borgs are allowed to erp when there's no going on, as long as they respond when needed and don't make it a constant and consistent habit.

You're throwing a entirely different person's behavior into this mix, Crowby, when I know that they tend to be messed with and have lashed out themselves. I'm not one to break laws as a cyborg.

There was no hidden "desire to interrupt" and at this point you're just starting to be hypocritical. If someone starts lashing out threats behind the dorms, it negates protection, if the sec commander calls for the arrest. It wasn't pushed, they didn't hear the issue in the first place because they were knocked out cold. If they told me to ignore it, I would have. That wasn't the case.

Ban baiting is classified as doing something to get yourself in trouble, then admin helping the person who's punishing you for that action. The player Prax not only disconnected during an admin sit, but decided to destroy my discord and shit talk me in looc over this.

Please read BlackMajors comment as it sums everything up perfectly.

[AmatsuDF]

There has been an immense level of support for this appeal on the Discord server tonight. This appeal should be considered upon, really...even at the absolute worst case scenario, Raiq did everything they could to ensure they were not violating server rules in this instance and should be unbanned as soon as possible.

[BlackMajor]

Moved the thread back to appeals thread from denied after a brief miscommunication...

...and because I had just told folk to give their input only for it to be moved to denied immediately after ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Zeldazackman]

Re opened the threat for folks so that they'd be able to even comment and all that on here

[SoftSpokenSolace]

Hey, uhhhh, yeh. Hi, I hang around Ana a lot in case you didn't know.

I guess I'm basically acting as a character witness attesting to their improved behavior, especially when I'm around to calm them down and tug the leash so to speak. And I know they can get overzealous when in urgent situations or aggravated by similarly confrontational characters. So much so that, as stated, they now basically only intend to get on when I am and willingly refrain from security roles if their ban is revoked.

And also agreeing with the pretty large consensus that a perma ban is bogus. This borg dorm room arrest fiasco should be a non issue. They asked permission from the Security Commander, and asked permission from an admin, getting the go ahead from both before proceeding. That's IC and OOC confirmation that it is perfectly okay to to this action, and that should be the end of the discussion of that. Full stop.

My opinion, if it matters, is that this appeal should go through and the ban revoked, guns were jumped without fully looking through the information. As multiple people have confirmed their IC behavior has improved and should not be general reason for a perma ban. I am aware of the ooc salt storms that start up, which should be handled appropriately with an ooc mute/ discord ban, until their behavior on that ground becomes better as well.

I know I'm probably biased, but hey, so are some people who want to see them banned. There's my piece.

[yourdoom9898]

I hope to be able to put down my opinion on this matter, however much it's worth. I have not known Ana/Raiq for long, only really getting to know them from my time on the RP server after the rebase to Virgo code. From my time knowing them, they have come off to me as a decent person, if on a fuze shorter than most. They may be quick to anger, but in my personal opinion, cause no more trouble than most when upset. They may be loud and obnoxious at times in OOC, which is a problem solved by them remaining discord banned, but otherwise, their behaviour as a player is much better than what I have heard of their behaviour before. I can not recall through my own observaton of any cases of them powergaming, and although I do not have the observational powers of the staff, I do not see them as the type of player to meta grudge other players.

TL;DR: I believe that the game ban should be reverted, and discord ban left in place.

[Sk1Tz]

Particularly irked that an admin tossed this appeal into the trash right as I submitted my hefty two cents on the matter. Now it's up in smoke. I smell some foul play.

Anyhow, Ana/raiq is a pretty nifty individual. I enjoy our albeit short conversations, and I always see them try to be better than those who consistently attempt to get under their and Crowby's skin. They're knowledgeable, and is always one of the first to tackle a dire situation. They are hotheaded however, like how I was looc dissed for saying they deserved Arvy's five minute spanking session. Sorta perturbed about that.

I've been on both sides of the Ana likeability scale, and I am relatively confused with how this entire case was handled. This seems more like a biased hit from a couple of certain staff (Evident clearly from the gutless attempt as shadowing this appeal. Thanks for that, again.) rather than a legitimate, well-deserving punishment.

(You owe me a hug, Ana, by the way. Don't forget that when you get back. Also I want a floating thro-)