Ban Appeal - Chefferz

[Worgilisk]

To try and keep this brief, this is more a case of your behaviour over the long-term rather than just one particular incident,
Time and again your nearly typical attitude and interactions with others is brought up, and this is something that has been going on for years - constant rule-skirting or out-right breaking should not be something that lasts that long if you have been working on making yourself better.
And over those years, numerous times you've gotten close to being permanently banned - but just haven't either from administration just not doing so, or additional chances being provided, and I intended for the last incident that resulted in your head ban to be that final chance (a chance that Jade convinced me to provide, as a reminder).

With that last chance expired, it's about time the foot's been put down on this.
My vote on this appeal, is nay.

[raiq]

To try and keep this brief, this is more a case of your behaviour over the long-term rather than just one particular incident,
Time and again your nearly typical attitude and interactions with others is brought up, and this is something that has been going on for years - constant rule-skirting or out-right breaking should not be something that lasts that long if you have been working on making yourself better.
And over those years, numerous times you've gotten close to being permanently banned - but just haven't either from administration just not doing so, or additional chances being provided, and I intended for the last incident that resulted in your head ban to be that final chance (a chance that Jade convinced me to provide, as a reminder).

With that last chance expired, it's about time the foot's been put down on this.
My vote on this appeal, is nay.

And since this last chance was given I've had this incident, which was cleared by an administrator before anything happened! You're telling me you gave me a last chance, which I didn't discount or not appreciate, but punishing me because of this incident when other admins are saying it was ban baiting is UNFAIR. Again, BlackMajor, has already told me he views it as such, and that this drama never should have happened.

That is why I am appealing. Please listen to the admins whom are on the rp server regularly, as they are giving testimony regarding this behavior!

[Vincent Airin]

For one, I am a regular on the RP server, a server mind you, that is more strict than the main server that you were previously perma banned. That said: what you fail to take into account here, as has been stated on multiple occasions by various staff; is that this is not over any one singular incident but over your time on the citadel servers over all. As such, due to your behavior showing no signs of improving. There's a reason I have blocked you twice in my time here. Both times from you being insulting, degrading and aggressive while I am simply explaining views, behaviors and rules to you. It's not just Jade you have trouble with, Jade just happens to be your most common admin you have trouble with. An admin who is ALSO an RP centered admin.

[raiq]

For one, I am a regular on the RP server, a server mind you, that is more strict than the main server that you were previously perma banned. That said: what you fail to take into account here, as has been stated on multiple occasions by various staff; is that this is not over any one singular incident but over your time on the citadel servers over all. As such, due to your behavior showing no signs of improving. There's a reason I have blocked you twice in my time here. Both times from you being insulting, degrading and aggressive while I am simply explaining views, behaviors and rules to you. It's not just Jade you have trouble with, Jade just happens to be your most common admin you have trouble with. An admin who is ALSO an RP centered admin.

I told you what happened, since you were a cargo tech and I was qm,, and you sent me a nasty message saying my relationship with solace was worthless and barely had any semblance, then blocked me.

You're not regularly on when I'm on..ive seen you on twice in character and only three or four times as admin when I'm online

[GrayRachnid]

You say this was the final straw but they were given explicit permission from an admin to do it.

[AmatsuDF]

Can it be stated for the record just what exactly was the 'final straw'? Going 'prior history' over and over doesn't help any, really.

[raiq]

I had my last chance taken from me because of a situation I admin helped and clarified before I did the IC things that I did.

I will pour my heart and soul into doing absolutely nothing but passive jobs like Medical and Cargo. I don't want to be taken from a community where I have so many friends. Please can this issue that sparked this ban be considered a fluke due to the fact I ahelped it and was told it was alright to proceed. Permaban me from everything on the next offense, remove my forum rights, I will NOT make ANY of you regret it. That's all I am asking.

[BlackMajor]

Hey there fella's. Thought I'd drop by to give my opinion on this little bit of controversy and disagreement we're having.

For the TL;DR, my short answer?
I think they got baited. I'm in favor of revoking this ban.

But, for the more in depth and detailed...

First things first, their history of accrued notes.




The above are from the main server.
That's quite the history now isn't it, spanning all the way back to lack 2015.

But, you don't really play on the main server so much anymore now do you?

The more relevant notes, considering their ban was delivered over RP server issues..



I've expressed some of my thoughts on that headban there before about uh, it being rather human to get mad after an admin pulse rifles you in the back while walking away but that's a whole 'nother can of worms we shouldn't get into right now.

But, if we're to address the particular instance revolving around what got you Permabanned in the end..
If I'm reading my facts right, the jist of it being over arresting Prax as a secborg with some OOC salt following.. but the more specific details err..
You, as a K9 Secborg were on Paladin and had received a vocalised threat from Prax over the radio implicating harm upon your person. Prax being a character with a stigma of their own about them as being particularly over the line aggressive in places, Jade having had first hand experience with this in the past of being validhunted by them (with a fair reason, albeit). Said threats were, rather distastefully, made from a bolted dorm room, to which one could proclaim this as an abuse of the dorms protection rules if we're fair.

Specifically, these threats.


To which they later moved to arrest them since, well, threats over the radio is a crime.

But, before entering the bolted dorm room, Ana had first Ahelped if it was ok for them to enter, to which they had been given a "Yes" by one of our own admins, Polymorph, i.e. Vixen.
Following which apparantly Prax had ahelped something about metagruding there, and we've had a bit of a bandwagon effect since that point, even though Ana kinda got baited hard here?
Supposedly even Prax's player thinks it's a bit over the top that they got Perma'd over this?
Like why were they banned if they asked first and were told yes. I've a strong feeling it's about their old note history from main. From my experiences with them in-game, they've not been on-par with their history. Lil' bit out of place at times to which I often ICly tell them off if I'm in-game at the time but I've seen them do some more respectable things (that bar floating in the atrium had me satisfied). Never was something I'd actually have to bwoink them over, aside from that one note about breaking into surgery.
Doesn't seem morally just to ban someone after they'd been given the ok by the admin on at the time to receive the initial ahelp.

As a mild side note, to Vincent's earlier claims of setting the solars on tether map as being powergaming.

That red cable is all it takes to set up the solars. (Modifying the SMES arrangement optional)
They are situated in a publicly accessible area with both the gloves and cable necessary to set them provided, with the intent of being used as emergency power sans there being a functional engine.
Hell I myself will go wire those three cables if there's no engineering staff, it's a duty any average jo can do. No breaking in required. But breaking into engineering to set the engine as an unrelated job would still be powergaming however, the access restrictions are important here. To which solars have none.

To summarise?
They've got a history, an old one, but a history. Rather more recent interactions display they're still not perfect, but they're leagues better than they used to be.
They've exclaimed they'd probably only play when Solace (their IC partner) is playing from now on since they do a good job of keeping them in line as their partner, but that's not really something we can or would enforce.
I'm of the mind that it's a case of bandwagonning and banbaiting, to which they've been bested by.
But those are my thoughts, that they should be unbanned, if not begrudgingly from some.


Addendum: Oh, before I forget. The OOC salt hasn't changed, I should elaborate I'm for a server unban. But have no quarrels with the discord ban remaining in place.

[derkuleen]

i think its pretty note worthy that of the replies made the division between responses can be seen with the "new age" and "senior" members of the administration team. weather or not that makes you question the judgment of one side or the other is up to the reader. As for Ana, what can i say? they put work in to justify their actions for certain but the fact he has to speaks volumes. Of course I think all this is needlessly excessive. when it comes to permanently banning players from the server i only question if doing so would have an *overall* positive influence on the server or would keeping them as a player have an *overall* positive influence on the server. As for the sum of the problem- is the trouble Ana causes periodically and reliably worth the enjoyment they bring to certain rounds? Do they cause more problems than they are worth? is it a zero sum? hard to tell- having been away makes it even harder a judgment call. To be fair I suppose i must abstain from +/- 1 on this post but i would like to make a response. I dont think Ana's a perfect player, no one does aight, but i also dont think they should go. I think anyone reading this should consider their own behavior and consider the behavior of other players. Others can get away with similar "shittery" at times other do not can not or did not. Admins get away with certain things, the average players get away with certain things...are we bound by a strict set of rules or can we bend the line to accept what we or the majority wants? It would be nice if more citadel players actually went to the forums and chimed in but ill take what i can get with whats already been said- and hopefully with what ever else will be said...players is Ana a negative, a positive, or a zero sum player?

[raiq]

I agree that 80% of the salt comes from the discord server, and me having a bright green donator tag doesn't do me any favors so my comments stick out like a sore thumb. I am perfectly content with what BlackMajor stated, after thinking over it, as I tend to jump into people arguing things and get into discussions about it far too in depth.

I promise to stick to roles that are only beneficial to the station, such as medical, or cargo, or service jobs. I'll no longer take any security positions as that role already generates a lot of hatred. There will be nothing to claim grudge against me with, and honestly will only play when I am able to, with Solace.

It all boils down to the fact I was respecting that last chance, but getting ban-baited is not fair to me, to have that last chance stripped. We've had a discussion about the incident where I secured the CD, something you mentioned was a minor issue, but also commented on how noticeably better things have been since then, Worgilisk.