GrayRachnid - Trojan Coyote

[GrayRachnid]

BYOND Name:  GrayRachnid

Reason Banned: Reason: Metabuddying as RealDonaldTrump's wife and self-antagging. Went mining with them as a scientist for nearly an hour, acquiring a lot of loot, before returning to the station and letting them into genetics for powers so they could explore space. Attacked security with a gravity gun when RDT was brigged and going to be fed mutadone. - Trojan Coyote

Admin who banned: Trojan Coyote

Length Banned: 20160 Minutes

Appeal Reason: I'm going to break the ban reason down and explain it from my perspective while trying to reference the rules.

"Metabuddying as RealDonaldTrump's wife" - I can't deny this one but there is nothing in the rules prohibiting it.  (See 05 in rules, under meta-gaming.)

"and self-antagging." - I'll come back to this one at the topic of attacking security.

"Went mining with them as a scientist for nearly an hour," - I do admit doing this, but I was doing nothing other than sitting in a bluespace body bag in his pocket, popping out to help repair the mech after slaying a megafauna. However, I have also fulfilled my role(Rule 04) by completely finishing RnD with a toxins bomb. Half the station was upgraded and there was nothing for a scientist to do other than circuitry and xeno, both of which i'm not really interested in and shouldn't be forced to do anyways.

"acquiring a lot of loot" - That is typically the result of going mining. I however, did not have any "loot" other than the Ash Drake armor which is typically shared between people when they kill one. I did not have any other "loot" so to speak. I do not believe we broke the powergaming rule as most miners are strapped to the brim almost every round. If i'm getting noted for powergaming by having ash drake armor as a mech repairer then so be it. (Rule 06)

"before returning to the station and letting them into genetics for powers so they could explore space." - Rdt got ColdRes and TK from mining, I was a skeleton-crew scientist with access to genetics. He wanted to give me cold-res so we could go space walking, for what i'm unsure. However, I had access and he had the powers already, we just wanted to share them. If it is considered powergaming to share powers to go space exploring/walking then so be it, mark me down for powergaming. (Rule 06)

"Attacked security with a gravity gun when RDT was brigged and going to be fed mutadone."  -  So, we're in genetics research. The CMO Reece walks in saying we should get out and that he doesn't want us in here sharing powers. We refuse to budge the CMO gets physical, pulling out his baton while calling for security. RDT fights back, Sanax rolls in as an officer and takes him down. I exit through the genetics research exit(leads to the hallway, on meta) and head to medbay lobby by going the long way around. I follow Sanax drag RDT to the brig, just so I can sit outside and wait for timer to finish. CMO Reece rolls in saying take his mask off, clearly following up with his threats of feeding RDT mutadone, something he said in genetics earlier. As soon as I see him attempt to take off RDT's mask and feed him mutadone, I shot the BRIG WINDOW with the gravity gun, knocking him back consecutively to stop him from feeding RDT mutadone. Sanax rolls out and attempts arresting me, I resist for a minute and get caught. I had zero intentions of breaking RDT out of the brig or even stopping sec from processing him, my intentions were to stop the CMO from feeding him mutadone. Tojan considered this "Self antagging" which I disagree against as I do not believe I broke any rules in Rule 08.

I'd like to top off by saying sorry if I seem to be rule lawyring here but i'm the type of person who sticks to the rules and I didn't see myself break any rules. When I asked Trojan what rules I broke and specifically which instances of the rules I broke, he shut off the ticket in my face, twice. I'd also like to note that if "metabuddying" falls under metagaming then I don't think we're going to be the first or last people who fall under this rule, I believe metabuddying is a very regular occurance on Citadel and if what we did is considered "excessive" metabuddying" then i'm sure it would have been reported as an issue way before we got to this point. 

[GrayRachnid]

Bump. I appreciate all the attention the other appeal is getting but i'd like to get some of my concerns answered as well.

[Ruby Flamewing]

Okay, because your post is smaller and your involvement is smaller as well, I'm not going to just copy+paste what I put down on RDT's appeal. Instead, I'll just have it copy+pasted on hand, so I can quote anything said on his on yours as needed. Just so that's clear if there's any remarkably clear cases of copy+paste done, because you're both tempbinned for roughly similar things, so only logical to do this bit as needed. Hell, on his, took about half an hour to type out, so yeah - what makes it a bit easier and faster for us both, the better. Now, onto actually replying to this...

Okay, we all know what metabuddying is. Here's the deal: being friends with someone is good. ICly being friends is good. Helping them out is good. But going so far as to break the law for them is only if you accept the fact that you're saying your friend's super fucking guilty, and now you're guilty by association, is probably not the WORST thing to do, but still pretty bad to do. We'll get back to that bit, though. On the topic of metabuddying, though, yes it's not listed in the rules for whatever bloody reason, but the fact that at one point it was, we all know what it means, what it entails, and why it's bad should be enough of a bloody sign as to at what point it's bad to do - which the whole "attack the cops and a department head" is certainly a point of it being bad.

Okay, let's say that your entire job down on Lavaland was to be in a bluespace bag and repair a mech occasionally. Let's also say that you did more than enough work regarding R&D that folks can be happy, and if they aren't and have proper access, can go do it their own damn selves. That's not a problem, to me. Nor is having the Drake Armor, for the purpose of being down there, but there is the fact that it's still really strong armor and given the fact you were both teaming up down there, there's a good chance that it looked like you were given a share of the rewards beyond just the armor for safety's sake down there. If credibility on account of you and RDT saying all you got was the armor, then that's a fumble on the moderator's end, if they have access to the verb to check a person's contents - if they don't, well, shit. The did what they could, and that's that - fucking up happens.

Okay, now to cover the next bit, about the fiasco in Genetics...I'm not sure *how* he got the powers, so if you want to inform me on the 'how' there, please do so. As for the 'why', he was done with mining, you were done with science, so he was going to take you along for space exploration, because...it's a thing to do, and since neither of you are assistants going off to do it at the start of the round, you're not being marked for repeated slapping on the hand with the words "stop it" stated every time. This is where things, I feel, went to shit in general, and the first instance I'll do of copy+pasting here:

"You see, Genetics is a very, VERY weird part of the station, in that it's under the control of TWO departments: Medbay and Science. As such, you have two department heads to contend with when it comes to using it beyond cloning: the CMO and the RD. If you're going to do the powers thing and hand them out to people, you're supposed to clear it with both - the act of getting powers technically falls to the RD's side of things, the handing out of powers falls under the CMO's side of things (because who do you scream at to do the fixin'?), so when the CMO said 'no' and to get out, they were in the right. You were essentially telling a department head that you weren't going to listen to them telling you to get our and stop doing something in their department, so their response was to get you to leave the area. Yes, your friend had access, but the CMO was against the notion and refusing their order was kind of a bad call."

You had skeletal access. So you had access to Genetics. Thing is, it still is controlled by the CMO, which is why Genetics was such an agonizing location back when anyone could get hulk and we didn't have all the shitters in there getting powers then abusing them. Quality control fixed that, but when you have people getting told 'no' by one department head then immediately going to the other and asking the same question, that's when shit gets bad. Too often the CMO would say 'no' because people are shits with powers usually, only to find the people had them anyways, handing them out anyways, and saying "but the RD said I could", which gets the two departments into a blood feud. It did, at one point, get so bad that staff was considering removing Genetics completely, just to stop the horseshit. But instead, we made a few adjustments, some bans, and things seemed to work out as a result from that.
So what does all of this blabbering on my end mean?
It means that, even though you had access, you didn't have department head permission. So when CMO comes in, sees RDT has powers, hears the plan, and says 'no'? That meant 'no', not 'no, but do it anyways'. So when you both refuse to leave, CMO goes for RDT, whom is a miner and the more dangerous of the two of you, calls for Security to help apprehend tresspassing (which is being somewhere you don't have permission to be at, even if someone who has access lets you in - real thing you can get arrested for IRL, by the way), and Security rolls in to see RDT slapping the CMO with their own telebaton. Security drops the miner, arrests them, and takes them to the brig.

This is where things get worse, I feel. You tail them, intending on just waiting the timer out, when the CMO shows up to remove what they thought were powers you gave them (which I and I'm sure everyone else was assuming this whole time, too) without clearing it with them, with plans on sharing the powers with you without their permission as well. So, they go to do their job, which is "if someone has genetics powers that shouldn't have them, and you don't even know what powers they have, mutadone to solve the problems". You decide to shoot a gravity gun, disrupting the process, throwing people into walls and possibly each other (which I know the latter does damage, former might as well), and then claim you didn't assault anyone.
You shot a gun. With clear intent. To throw someone around. And you even say you did so repeatedly, so that the CMO couldn't even get a chance to try again with any measure of success. Yes, you weren't hitting the department head directly, but you were targeting them specifically, and given you shouldn't even be having the gun as per Security's protocols, you were kind of assaulting a head of staff with contraband, all things considered. Now, if it was someone being a shitter towards you and it was a defensive strat, that's one thing - but actively attacking someone, in essence, because you don't agree with what they're doing and what they're doing is *in the right,* that is kind of self-antagging. You are, as a non-antag, attacking a person for flimsy reasons on all accounts, in this case being "I didn't want the CMO to do their job, so I kept throwing them against a wall or another person with a gravity gun."
I mean, I should include the whole "resisting arrest" thing, but eh, that's kind of cut and dry what that was, anyways.


Anyways, the point of the matter is that, if some communication with other players was done, the whole bit in genetics and even security could've been avoided. The way things went the way they did, though, is why things went so bad. That, and the 5-0 vote in favor of the temp bans for what the two of you did individually kind of proved that, given two headmins voted on it, that yeah, some fucking up happened. Some serious fucking up happened. So all I can suggest, really, is to not let things get to this sort of point again - and remember that IC relationships are not excuse to go doing crazy or stupid shit for your IC relationship partner. If the person's in the wrong or being subject to something fair and right, don't do something stupid and get yourself in serious shit as a result. Being friends is one thing, using it as an *excuse* to break the rules or just be a dick...not so much.

[GrayRachnid]

Since my only offence is apparently stopping the CMO from feeding RDT mutadone then can you consider shortening the ban or outright removing it considering I still don't understand how that is Self-antagging? It really seems more like an IC issue rather than an administrative one.

Considering this is technically my first ban/note I think two weeks a bit too harsh.

I'd also like to note that I angled my shots with the gravity gun to knock the CMO back, but not into anything, and i'm pretty sure even if he did hit the glass window once, it wasn't much damage.

[Knightfall5]

If their involvement was smaller, why is their ban longer? I was present during that round as a miner, and I didn't see them do much of anything that was wrong. I fitted out their mech with Goliath plates and saw the fight in medbay, and I don't really see how what happened was a bannable offense, let alone two weeks. The genetic powers were gotten very early in the round, I'm pretty sure from Wishgranter.

[Ragolution]

This ban has been reduced to a week after some consideration. If you still wish to maintain your appeal, you are fully within your right to do so.

[GrayRachnid]

I still do not know exactly what action I took deserves a week long ban. I have knowledge of a player that did much more "self antagging" and only got a 12 hour ban so please tell me how this is fair.

[Nik707]

Wait how is this one reduced and still 5 days longer than the other. I'm so lost.

[Ragolution]

Don't shoot the messenger.

[GrayRachnid]

Well I'd appreciate a response from someone who isn't the messenger then.