BlackMajor/MrJWhitt (Dunno who to tag there) - ForrestWick - Main - Permaban

[ForrestWick]

BYOND account and character name: Forrest Wick (Trace Grant, Forrest Greene, Regina Locke)

Banning admin: MrJWhitt applied it, but apparently at BlackMajor's request.

Ban type/duration (where you are banned from and for how long):

Ban reason: Ban relayed at BlackMajor's request, considering lack of improvement over numerous opportunities: You've fucked up way too many times, been permabanned before, constantly get into shitfits and overzealous, you've been warned countless times. Every day you're on is a new ahelp debacle, and a whole slew of your offenses involve trying to banbait other players. A grievous offense. It's time to bite the bullet and send you on your way.

Your side of the story: Not much to say besides I have fucked up a lot, but I was definitely trying to improve at the very least, and I've been told that I was showing improvement so there's that.

Why you think you should be unbanned: Well, I have a lot I can and will say so I guess I wanna start with dissecting the ban reason with some thoughts I have one it.
"Lack of improvement over numerous opportunities"
I'd like to think I've definitely been improving over how I was a while ago. Granted when I first came to the server I was still pretty green and was relatively chill, but I guess my change in environment or me getting more familiar with the game changed that until the first perma I got. After that I did try to take some time to reflect, and did so, but definitely not as long as I probably should have. Think I made my appeal like... a day or so after my first perma? Anyway, I will say it's been roughly a week now and I've given a lot more thought to the situation and tried to get my thoughts straightened out. The conclusion I've come to is that I got too lackadaisical with how I went about my rounds, which I suppose didn't help that I would frequently take head roles. I can say for sure that I realize I do need to keep my actions in better check, and I know for sure I can do that now that I realize the problem.

"Fucked up way too many times, been permabanned before"
Yeah, that's fair, honestly. I had a lot of fuckups, but I'd like to think that my fuckups were at least infrequent and/or minor enough to not be severely impactful on the server or community. I definitely had my bad days where I'd do some tremendously stupid shit, obviously, but nobody's perfect, y'know? In my own view, the incidents were at least far enough apart that it could be regarded as just heat of the moment stupidity while having a bad day. Not an excuse, but it's something that I'm sure a lot of people on the server and that play the game period experience.

"Constantly get into shitfits and overzealous"
No real comments on this one. I got a bit heated once or twice on Hyper (in dead chat, mainly), but for the most part I've been trying to get into the mindset of if I'm going to salt at people, do it quietly and no further than one or two quips. It's a game, no need to treat it as anything more as long as I have potential for a better time next round.

"Every day you're on is a new ahelp debacle"
This part confuses me because I can't tell if it's "you ahelp too much" or "too many people ahelp against you". If it's the former, I'm not really sure what to say to that besides I just won't ahelp unless it's overly serious. If it's the latter, I can't say having that be part of the reason alone is exactly fair considering a lot of people (myself included, I'll admit) have an itchy trigger finger for ahelping stuff that should be considered an IC issue.

", and a whole slew of your offenses involve trying to banbait other players. A grievous offense."
I legit do not have any idea how "a whole slew" of my incidents on Citadel involve me ban baiting people, to be honest.

With that out of the way, I was also told that my amount of notes came into play as well, but like... There are quite a few notes of mine that are missing enough context that they can be easily taken as being worse than they actually are.

2019-11-05
This note is leaving out that the HOS was putting on that tone because I asked for a "quest", so they went with a ye olde english vibe for flavor. Not sarcastically. This was discussed on Discord.

2019-07-06
This note in general was ridiculous, as was the situation I was in at the time. During this round, I was a warden with a HOS and no other sec players during clock cult. So people flood into the brig, some there to get shielded, some there to bring in captured cultists. Our chaplain was sitting at the bar naked as we repeatedly screamed for him to please come to sec and help us. So the HOS up and decides to let people flood into sec and starts mindshielding them before we even get our hands on a single tank of holy water, let alone a bottle, and then sends them on their way. The clown was one of them. So without being able to test any of them prior, they were all mindshielded with me being unable to stop it as I was handling so much else on my own. Geem suggested perma or gulag after the clown had been killed by the captain, but it's a clock cult round. If I did that, it just takes one second for the clown to get abducted and made another clockie no matter what I do. That's in addition to the fact that we were basically a two man sec squad, me and the HOS, so wasting my time on a self antagging clown is not something I can do without putting myself, him, the brig, and even the rest of the crew at risk since it would've been stupidly easy for them to raid the armory while I throw the clown in perma or gulag.

2019-05-16
Getting noted for what was a completely accidental shuttle purchase, on a shuttle I didn't even know was meant for hijack no less, was just silly. I remember a previous round where I looked at the shuttle name and thought it'd be a nice thing to get, but didn't have enough for it so I went with something else.

2019-06-15
Chase left out the part where the person I neutered had been repeatedly running around naked and emoting sexual harassment stuff at other doctors before I dropped them and took them to surgery. It wasn't JUST because of the breakins, otherwise I would've thrown them out after a morphine syringe or two and nothing more.

2019-09-13
Cargo has a glass shard bounty and there was a confirmed cult. Considering how we also had maybe two secoffs that round, I'd say grabbing the fireaxe for my shard bounty and for self defense when I went maint diving for crates and stuff was reasonable.

These notes themselves, in my opinion, are kinda silly, and on top of that I don't see that many notes in my history in general that even hint at ban baiting.

Overall, I wanna request at least the ban be a temp one rather than perma. Maybe a month if you really feel iffy about me coming back, but I honestly do feel like I was making enough progress that it wouldn't take long to improve myself and my behavior in the game and on discord. I've had some time to actually consider my actions and think best of how to fix my issues. I like Citadel, I really do. I like the people, the general feeling of being familiar with the rest of the crew/players round to round, and the variety in rounds and code work being done. I wanna contribute to the code as well and make it a better server as a whole and help figure out a direction for it to go in.

If the appeal is denied, then I guess that'll be that. I just want to have another chance. I honestly feel I can get myself straightened out now, and would like to be able to still play while I do so.

[deathride58]

It's way, way too soon since your ban took place. Your ban was placed on 12/15/2019, which is 8 days prior to this appeal having been made. Since this ban is considered a quality control ban, it'll only be lifted if you have a vouch from an established, reputable server (general rule of thumb being most other mainstream servers), in which you have been playing and active within the community of for a significant amount of time. There's nothing more to be said here.

[ForrestWick]

In the case of my last perma, it was decided that the actions I committed that resulted in it weren't really deserving of a perma. And in this case I really don't think it's deserved here either. After talking with a few people and even a staff member they wound up agreeing with me that a perma seems harsh given the circumstances when I was showing improvement.

[ForrestWick]

Also nobody told me it was QC ban and it was not listed as such in the ban reason, either. I was told it was a consensus of the entire admin staff on the night of the ban, and then later found out there were people on the staff team who didn't even know I had gotten banned at all.

[timothytea]

I read through this thread and feel like for quality control stuff you should be more lenient. I had my own issues under a year ago where I was pretty bad and almost got banned a tonne and got told many times if I didn't improve id be permanently banned.

Forrest has done way less worse stuff in their time and has proved they /can/ be a good player, they have some stuff to work on, (I mean, so do I), but the fact they can play without causing issues and aren't purposefully causing issues makes me feel a permanent ban is over the top.

I ended up improving to some degree and haven't been permanently banned which is pretty hard proof that if you give people a second chance they can very much improve when shown what will happen if they don't.

also to add if my knowledge is right bm is one of the admins who wanted me to be given an extra chance instead of being permanently banned, so it feels like this isn't being handled with the same fairness I was given despite them both being pretty similar as they're both oriented around qc.

[ForrestWick]

Been a while since I got anything more than what bhjin said, and I'd like it if Justin/BM responded since they were the ones handling it and this hasn't been moved to either accepted or denied, so bumping.

[Ragolution]

Did you do any work towards getting a recommendation?

[ForrestWick]

I mean I haven't really done anything of note on the servers I've been playing on since the ban outside reporting RDMers on desert rose. Staff on Bee and DR don't know me well enough I'm sure and Hyper is the only other server I can think of where a recc would be accepted, but I don't get on there as often cause it's LRP lowpop 24/7

[Versallion]

Hey Forrest, I'd say that you would've deserved perma for the latest action that you did that got you banned. (Admitting to stealing antag objectives as non-antag just to test the validhunt qualities of sec in a wizard round no less)
https://imgur.com/KO6OP0x

This, THIS is what got you banned, the final tipping point from me that I ahelped you for because you went after me in MY DMs during an ACTIVE REV ROUND where I was the HEADREV ON THE DAY BEFORE YOU PULLED THIS, getting to it in a bit.

That being said, appealing for the permaban on the same day you got banned was just way too early for it and even then it took me awhile and a voice call to add this onto your appeal.
https://imgur.com/a/C2DVEjL


I hope you have improved after your ban (Though you said you were trying to improve and on that same day get banned)

Now, onto my DMs:
https://imgur.com/nWG6I3Y
https://imgur.com/r131J9L



Look man, in what rational move is it to take a sec officer to cloning WITH PATROLLING ACTIVE SECURITY, and flash them in MEDBAY with THAT MANY PEOPLE, because i'm sure you would run the MOMENT you're awake and scream something, or some doctor would hear and call rev and it would have been better to leave security dead. (but the rev round went to shit anyways) As well as asking me and getting on to me in MY DMS during an ACTIVE ROUND where you are asking me to do SOMETHING while you are dead, bad move.

I don't think the appeal would go through but i'm putting in my post.

[BlackMajor]

Nah man go get a vouch, twice permabanned is the big uneasy territory.