[blackmajor] tippler appeal on permaban and edit on a note

[Tippler]

BYOND account and character name: Tippler - Holly

Banning admin: blackmajor / (note:14910 littleriolu)

Ban type/duration (where you are banned from and for how long): Perma

Ban reason: Ordering a mosin crate during a blueshift as a cargo technician with a several notes of powergame in history, hostility and overescalation. (Note: 14910: Banned from lavaland - Willingly went to the station as an Ashwalker because they wanted to inform crew that all of the miners were dead.)

Your side of the story: Don't know. Just ordered a mosin crate as cargo tech, only because i have seen plenty of other people do it even on extended, but the current shift was blueshift.

Traitor atmos tech broke in cargo bay and straight up shot the QM in the cargo bay while i was busy trying to type out to the ahelp. I'm saying that i didn't go out my way to hunt for antag with a mosin, it came right in cargo bay and shot QM inside the cargo bay so i shot at the traitor with the mosin. The whole shift i had been doing most of the bounties. I was pretty confused about the ahelp, since i had no intent to powergame.

Also was banned midround and cruiser missiled to death instead of moved to CC holding cell according to Sachi. Who said also my gear that presumably got me banned was looted by other people.

On my past. I can recollect the only time being 'hostile' in ahelp was when i had revolutionaires disabled and i was force made a headrev without notice.

I don't know if my past logs from Blackmajor are hidden from me, but i cannot see mine in statbus at all. Tried contacting few admins about this issue, but nobody answered back. First ban was not logged neither the permaban or at least i cannot see them.

(Note: 14910. I know i did go willingly to the station as ashwalker, but my side is that me and my partner saw ''Ros-kun Great wizard'' or something along those lines killing the miners and dragging one so i thought it was a wizard round so we went up and told the crew that a wizard killed their miners, but funnily enough it was just a traitor disguising as a wizard. Also the jobban wasn't just from lavaland. It was from all of the ghost roles. Don't know if that was intented.)

Why you think you should be unbanned: I enjoy playing with friends and that's probably my main point on, why i should be unbanned. Not like i would be playing here if my friends wouldn't be playing here. Pretty sure i can improve considering the last incident of powergaming had been a month ago! Also server is less chaotic than TG which is better!

[LittleRiolu]

Hello Tippler, and thanks for making this appeal. I will explain the part of your note and ban from Lavaland roles.

Regarding your ban from Lavaland roles, all of them are tied to it. With our current system, we can't ban you from only Ashwalkers, it applies to all Lavaland roles of this time.

Even if they were a wizard, that wouldn't justify the reason of you willingly going to the station. Lavaland Roles section of the rules specify that "Ash walkers are not to willingly board the station for any reason". The only exception to this, is if you got converted into an antagonist somehow. Also, I had PM'd the other Ashwalker that went along with you and they had a completely different reason for boarding the station, making your reasoning even more suspicious.

Either way, the note and the temporary ban from Lavaland roles is still going to stand. A headadmin can overrule me if they wish so.

[Tippler]

Oh, thanks for the reply and that is understandable now then if it's just system limitations! But i tried to join as old crew aka charlie station which is not a lavaland role and said i'm job banned from it same for the hermit.

[LittleRiolu]

I think all of the roles that are in the spawner menu counts as 'Lavaland'. I can assure you that's the only thing I role-banned you from and nothing else.

[Tippler]

Ah, okay. So all ghost roles count as lavaland. Will remember that!

[BlackMajor]

Hi there.
Some quick clarifications to handle.

The exact reason for your ban (which you can read by just trying to log into the server) was:

"Long, overextended history of constantly powergaming in multiple different jobs. Has several notes and bans correlating to the issues in questions, completely awful to work with in ahelps. Constantly denies any wrong doing on their part, always dodging the points given to them with straw mans and outright ignoring the accusations given to them. Take some time off before trying to appeal this. You might eventually learn what we've been trying to tell you."

And the cruise missile removal qdel's your equipped items, so nothing was looted after your ban.

As for the appeal itself, I've some concerns.
You don't seem to be willing to acknowledge that you did any wrong during this, rather, that you were in your right to do so.

I'm willing to reduce the sentance duration though, I'm not /that/ harsh. You still seem like you're interested in playing and improving. But I don't want it to go through with you not having learned anything from it. Is there some facet of the issue you're have difficulty understanding?

To reiterate the ahelp that I was trying to tell you in. The primary issue of it all was that you, a cargo tech, had needlessly acquired a lethal weapon and armour early into the round, without any previous provocation to need to do so. But in the ahelps that followed, rather than acknowledging that something was askew, you instead went to argue that it was ok because others had done it, and that "anything can be lethal".
As for the traitor that came in right after and got gunned down by you, that was just (amusing) unfortunate timing. Though it did drill home part of the point I was trying to make.

Can you understand why any part of this might've been ill suited for your role on the station?

PS:
Don't be afraid to just ping me directly on the discord if you need something looked at. I don't bite.

[Tippler]

I understand what i have done and sorry if i did ruin Keron's shift as an antag (the atmos tech) or ruined Peyton's shift (the QM) during the scene. Will not repeat this incident or play cargo technician never again due to this, pretty sure i can handle my play time off from that job.

Also good to hear that cruise missile is the preferred method of head admins to ban someone midgame and still my statbus is empty of a note of my permaban or the previous ban you have given me. Is there a reason why you didn't address this when i asked for it in the appeal?

[SectoidDan]

play cargo technician never again due to this

This is overkill and either you know it or you're just continuing to skip over the actual thing you did wrong that got you banned in the first place; neither is good. That said if you feel you cannot play Cargo Tech without gearing up with weapons and armour, then keeping away from the job is a good idea.

Also good to hear that cruise missile is the preferred method of head admins to ban someone midgame

This kind of passive-aggressive snark is not going to win you any favours either and is the type of thing that makes dealing with you in any official manner utterly obnoxious. If you have a problem or complaint about BlackMajor's method of dealing with your body after you had been permanently banned, it's in your best interest to state that calmly and clearly. In this case it's my opinion that it was a little over the top of him, but ultimately you weren't coming back to the round, and as a CT you shouldn't have had any gear that would be important to the round and so removing your body and gear was entirely justified.

Unfortunately statbus doesn't do the best job of catching bans and adding them to your notes, so we often have to do it manually but a lot of the time it slips through the cracks. I've added those, or at least attempted to, just now.

Not a good appeal and not good answers to responses here. You say you understand what you've done wrong but until you can explain exactly what that was to us your chances of getting properly unbanned are not high. You need to convince us, as staff, that you do in fact understand what rules you broke and how, and commit to not breaking those rules again if you want to continue playing on the main server. Otherwise even if BlackMajor does lower your ban to a timed one I don't think it'll take long for you to be banned again for the same sort of thing even if you're not a CT when you do it.

[Tippler]

If i have to be that specific; Rules that i broke? Rule 6, even though there isn't a clear example other than stealing items for power. I did order a mosin crate (Which includes surplus armor) only on the fact that others have done it, which is wrong perspective and i understand that and am sorry for. Did i break rule 4? No, i was the only cargo technician that shift doing bounties actively with the QM. Did i break rule 7? I didn't go away (or abandon job) with myself to find antag with my mosin, only because the antag broke in to the cargo bay, shot the QM right in front of me and trying to drag his body away, i took him out. Rule 8? I even got arrested during the shift due to having a bloody knife for using it on a bounty monkey earlier while having my mosin of course. But i didn't break in places to complete my bounties during that round, no. Rule 9? I can't say i had been creep that round. Rule 3? I didn't break my character that round at least. Rule 1? Didn't randomly kill the antag that killed the QM in front of me, which in my head is strong justification, if it's bad justification i'll change my mind and i'm sorry if it's wrong. Might have damaged two grilles during the shooting not sure, but i'm sorry for that unintentional damage!

Rule 2? Yes, i did break this rule by not listening to the ahelp, which am sorry for.

[BlackMajor]

Gonna be honest, kinda on the fence here and not really confident in your ability to change.

Lets go over some history of your time here then to put things into perspective first. Think of it as a review of your time here and if any of it could be considered as still relevant to you.

The first ban you got on citadel here is from myself, when you decided to inferno grenade the shuttle because you got arrested. After which, you had argued with me for a good several minutes with inane, unrelated arguments instead of just committing to the fact you may have done something wrong.

Here's the exact temp ban reason on that one.

"After a particularly active round of secret, as a shaft miner who was being arrested on the emergency shuttle via baton, threatened security with a firebomb if they didn't stop batonning them. And, following a baton, decided to.. deploy an inferno grenade.... on the emergency shuttle... incinerating several people. Just because they got arrested, instead of trying to talk or be a reasonable human being. Following bwoinks, got increasingly uppity in ahelps and refused to respond to questioning or suggestions with anything more than repeated strawman arguments. Did not seem to be able to comprehend that "Hey maybe killing everyone because you got arrested is a bit of an overescalation." "

During such interactions, you were coming off as obnoxious and incredibly self absorbed. Unable to show a hint of remorse.
You were still "Relatively" (like 3-4 months) new to the server at the time however, maybe you'd learn to change and fit in better.

A mere month later, kevinz picks up on some of your behaviour flaring up. Kevinz marked this high severity note as secret, but since it's relevant now, I'm marking it not secret.

Lets go over the details of this one too, yeah?

"i forgot to note this yesterday but when told to not always report people for things they didn't do and assuming the worst of people and getting people valided over shit they didn't do (the last straw was when julio broke into tech storage and they lied on radio and said they broke into secure tech and probably stole the ai/comms boards when they didn't do such a thing) because y'know one person repeatedly crying wolf to the point where it causes problems for everyone else and then pulling the "it's my character not me" excuse is annoying they were completely unable to comprehend the idea and at the end just went "yeah i guess i can't tattle on people ever" ,went to discord, and tried to exaggerate and make a fiasco of it. if you talk to them about similar things, keep this in mind, and if you talk to them in general do not take their shit because while they do not *seem* to physically cause issues in rounds their attitude for this server in general is toxic as seen by this along with how they interact with people in round in general."

The part highlighted in bold in that note. Does any of that seem like it lines up with your persistent behaviour? Because it's telling a brewing tale about how you're not going to change, and that the same issues remain in place.

How about this one, marked 15 days after that last one.

Given notice regarding their toeing the line on powergaming and self-antagging. Broke into a small maint room on Delta to steal a Sec locker inside, then broke open the locker to loot it for comms and gear for no reason. Hoarding Sec gear, an RCD, meds and Nuka-Cola during a greenshift as an assistant is not acceptable behaviour here.

As you got more into the server, a bad habit started to show. One of, as I've tried to tell you, hoarding equipment you couldn't possibly need. Powergaming, if we're to use buzz words. A habit that would remain persistant for some time.

Fast foward a few months, passing by some notes of escalation, some bans of self antagging. I'm not going to go over every single one, this post would grow a few miles long if I were to gather the whole history. We come to the most recent ban. A perma, from myself. A meagre six months since your first signs of playing here. You weren't even trying to go out of your way to get banned, and yet you managed to collect a history in that time span to validate being permabanned. It really doesn't sit well with me.

And so, we come to your permaban itself. In full.

"Long, overextended history of constantly powergaming in multiple different jobs. Has several notes and bans correlating to the issues in questions, completely awful to work with in ahelps. Constantly denies any wrong doing on their part, always dodging the points given to them with straw mans and outright ignoring the accusations given to them. Take some time off before trying to appeal this. You might eventually learn what we've been trying to tell you."

I remember arguing this with you.
It could have been a simple acknowledgement of fault and moving on.
But instead, you wanted to argue and try to validate, your history considered, that you had full right to be ordering a gun without any confirmed threats. During which, you would not stop deflecting and attempting to ignore the issue. I remember giving you a detailed explanation of why what you were doing was wrong, in which the word "guns" was mentioned. Rather than considering the explanation, you went off on a tangent over that single s appended to "gun" because you only had one. It was growing increasingly more obvious to me in dealing with you that whatever I was saying was going in one ear and out the other. And so, I look back at my very first administrative interaction with you. Your first ban. Where you again, deflected consistently, and would not submit to maybe having a little fault? After some discussion with the other admins at the time, it was decided to give you the perma if you weren't going to understand. Changing to fit into the rules is important, and if someone cannot change, then we can't deal with them either.

But I'm not done yet.
Not going to dig through and gather the exact screencaps of offenses made. A simple "from: Holly#5219" in the discord chat will line up with your obnoxious, abrasive behaviour. But do you recall the time after your ban was made? Where you had, rather immediately, attempted to try to stir drama based on your bans (and still are). Something akin to what some of the earlier descriptions in this post referred to? If the point hadn't been made yet, you won't change. And I don't believe you will either.

With that, I must confirm where I stand on this.

I am denying, this appeal.
Your quality is not fit for the server, you managed to rack up a lot of negative feedback in your relatively short time here, and we don't have anything to lose by letting you go.

Go to another server. A reputable one. Play there for a decent amount of time and fit in. Maybe then you'll change.