[NicoDeimos] R3dtaile - Note appeal for powergaming

[NicoDeimos]

I may have misremembered how the conversation about the lighteater played out, but it's true you did also take the heart which was mentioned in the ticket.

[Redtail]

I know it's true, because I remember distinctly that I had both. And like I mentioned in the initial appeal, both organs aren't great. But, we'll see what a headmin has to say.

[Redtail]

In this scenario you rushed the corpse to harvest and implant the organs for yourself just to have them. The threats to the station had long since past and the shift had become entirely calm, so it wasn't an emergency situation. When I mentioned those exact equipment alternatives to the organs in the ticket, you responded by saying there was no alternative to the heart which told me you wanted the items for the uniqueness. When another admin asked if there was any downside to the organs you said then as you say now that the light eater has the biggest downside, and at the time of the incident you chose not to have the light eater specifically because of the downside which told me you were making a conscious decision to avoid negative effects min-maxing what powers and abilities you did gain.

It's a double post but I really, /really / want to highlight this area, which is an outright falsehood. Clarified in other posts but this twisting of what happened really, really scares me, and I want to make sure that it gets looked at when the headmins make their decision. I had both organs and 'min-maxing 'was absolutely not part of the equation.

[Redtail]

Tbh I'm with Nico. Implanting organs in general fnr is powergaming, moreso if you're picking and choosing for upsides vs downsides. Not sure if it's something to do with nightmares since you seem to want to be one a lot of the time but in this instance I'm in favor of the note staying in place. -1

Also I've never even played a nightmare. So I don't know where you're getting that from.

[Redtail]

Tbh I'm with Nico. Implanting organs in general fnr is powergaming, moreso if you're picking and choosing for upsides vs downsides. in this instance I'm in favor of the note staying in place. -1

AFter your edits, Istill have to say this is incorrect, since I wasn't picking based on upsides vs downsides.

[Soranayo]

I was the one that brought the upside/downside point, not Chase. Plus, i would say it was power gaming if they actively sought and killed the nightmare solely for their organs, like you would a ninja only for the sword for instance, which wasn't the case. What we're currently discussing is kind of amusing to me.

If someone kills a slaughter demon and eats the heart, you'd bwoink them ? The threat is gone after all, and serves little to no purpose. The demon won't use the heart either, so basically we'd leave it on the ground ? Or put it in the sec locker ? Any player's reaction knowing what it did would use it, regardless of their current job, and this organ is a straight upgrade and i've never seen -anyone- get bwoinked or noted for it myself, while they do get bwoinked for this ? There are also other examples of small and large importances and i'm sure that, now that i've pointed that one out, you can find a few yourself.

Listen, i admit that admins are not above the rules, and should be regarded a bit more strictly, but this is handpicking, in my opinion, if you want to bwoink for this, bwoink anyone using unusual organs any way at all, or anything that could be considered an antag's death reward, or sometime even just plain loot (AKA : Xeno organs in space.).

[Tupina]

In my completely honest opinion, unusual organs/demon organs shouldn't ever be considered a form of powergame. They are already rare by default, in some capacity require another individual to help you actually obtain them, and generally aren't *that* powerful. On top of that, I feel like disallowing it goes against the spirit of the game. It's supposed to be a research station after all, so why not allow some experimentation?
Why would you just leave an organ to go unused because ((OOC)) reasons. I feel like there's a big difference between making use of a powerful thing that you already have, and CREATING a powerful thing. (This is a line that makes stuff like combat mechs 4nr bad, but sec using traitor gear acceptable)

This note seems really silly. It's a victimless "crime" at most, and it feels against the spirit of the game.

[madamheichou]

I agree with Chase here.
Nightmare organs are garbage and people only use them to look cool. In every case I've seen someone yoink a nightmare's light eater or eyes, they don't use it for it's intended purpose, the same way I use dark blessing as chaplain. It looks cool as fuck and I can scream "CHAPLAIN HAS AN ARMBLADE AA".
Nightmare organs can't be considered powergaming when it's a downgrade AND it's intention is for aesthetic, rather than how powergaming defines an intent for one-uping or gaining power over everyone else. +1 on yeeting the note.

[NicoDeimos]

I would like to point out (copied from the tg wiki since ours is incomplete):

Heart: Instead of a normal heart, Nightmares have a "Heart of Darkness". When implanted into a host, it reshapes one of the host's arms into a light eater permanent armblade. It has the ability to revive its host from the dead if the body is shrouded in darkness. The mutant human (no matter how menacing that armblade may be) is still a member of the crew, and therefore not an antagonist.

A no-drop weapon as strong as an armblade that can revive the user from death(?). I wasn't aware of that secondary effect unless Citadel's version might have been nerfed.

Eyes: Instead of a normal pair of eyes, Nightmares have "Burning red eyes" When implanted into a host, they can see perfectly in darkness

Night vision that doesn't take up the glasses slot allowing for use of other gear in combination.

These are clear mechanical advantages that were taken so one person could just have them.
Yes we have been cracking down on security using traitor gear outside of circumstantial reasons and I stand by including organs under similar scrutiny since they offer benefits all the same. No this isn't the most egregious case of power gaming, however I still feel the note is perfectly valid as it's simply that: a note of the behavior for future reference where the behavior was gathering antag organs for oneself to use for little to no cause.

Just as well the comparison to the equipment that can be researched and built is flawed. Those usually require the work and cooperation of multiple departments. Regarding the organs it only took the cooperation of an underling to implant them. I would also like to reiterate my stance against the idea of antag gear and organs being considered "trophies" for the good guys to win for beating them. That sort of mindset serves to encourage validhunting.

It's not even a case of "no fun allowed ever" it's literally just "hey I noticed you did this thing you had no reason to do, don't make a habit of it."

[geemiesif]

I dont think this note should be edited or removed as it is factual information, should it not happen again it wont be an issue just like alot of the notes we have on players. I wish I could delete some of my old notes just for they are so old but they stay there. Eyes and the heart give an advantage, Xeno organs minus the spit and egg layer are normally meme'd sure but thats a bit different. A no drop weapon and free night vision is a bit different. Chase, we have to be a better example when playing, I know I have noted Kevin and hes improved since then for his own kind of power gaming. This is just a note, lets move on and show that you aren't doing that anyways anymore so its moot.