Koenigsegg's PK Appeal

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Flynn Flan
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RE: Koenigsegg's PK Appeal

Post by Flynn Flan »

ZeroNetAlpha wrote:
First off, this isn't okay. That's exactly the kind of behavior the metagrudging rule is designed for us to say no to.
Excuse me?
You're calling out Koenigsegg on metagrudging, because they fucking insulted someone? Someone who, on a ROLEPLAY server, with round-to-round persistence, had previously upset the character?
But, you're not going to even mention the fact that security walked in and was going to fucking baton them, without any warning, for god damn ABUSE OF PUBLIC COMMS!
That... THAT is metagrudging to a degree that it actually isn't fair
Arguing with someone who upset you? Knowing the story, it being something I too, have also gotten upset about, and not gotten yelled at at all by admins or security at all for it. How is that metagrudging?
Security tried to arrest them, and came at them with a baton without following the arrest procedures, over GOD DAMN PUBLIC COMMS ABUSE. "Comms abuse" that was, to a degree that, might I add, I have gotten off with barely a warning; A warning that was directed at the whole argument, not just myself...
Polymorph wrote: Well, I imagine the least we can do is let Prax have one last round with a firing squad if you'd like :P .
Wow... That's fucking mature and professional

ZeroNetAlpha
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RE: Koenigsegg's PK Appeal

Post by ZeroNetAlpha »

Flynn. First off, this ban appeal has little to do with you. If you had ANY idea about the relation between Prax Resca and one of my characters, you wouldn't be so quick to call ME out on metagrudging her. My point about it still valid. Immediately insulting people the moment they step off the tram, when they haven't said anything or interacted with you at all during the shift isn't okay.

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RE: Koenigsegg's PK Appeal

Post by Pascal123 »

ZeroNetAlpha
"Immediately insulting people the moment they step off the tram, when they haven't said anything or interacted with you at all during the shift isn't okay."
As the "specific character" in question. I can easily tell you that, That's not what happened at all. And i'd like to know what you were told about the situation.

As for Polymorph's statement.
"With all of that said... a PK is a rare incident for Citadel, and given it wasn't declared explicitly it was coming,"

Not only is it a "rare incident". This is the only incident, i believe everyone was under the assumption that PK's would never occur, regardless of circumstance. While it is true that Prax can occasionally be a hassle to deal with, their only crime in this instance would be back and forth insulting someone for two minutes. I do not believe the plasma fire was their fault. And i think  the decision to punish them was executed poorly, especially given they were not forewarned of the potential consequence for their actions in a given round, beforehand. Or even spoken about their behavior OOCly by Staff. When on Virgo, they would. and should be.

People like Prax (And there are a few, i don't see why only Prax should be the exception. If all of a sudden, admins feel the need to punish for this.). That is to say, crewmembers who are a little less then sunshine and rainbows. I happen to consider, a good thing. Even as a Security Main. Why? Because they give security something to do, and prevent the game from stagnating into what can only be described as, an internet chatroom. They are a necessary evil. Especially since, for whatever reason. "Secret" was removed from rotation, and we are now forced to rely on "Admin Events" to be given purpose. Admin events which rarely occur. As a result, rounds are, to be frank. Boring. Without someone to stir the pot.

I also believe that Jade handled this unprofessionally, given his involvement, and unnecessary public disclosure. But that's another subject.
One i'd briefly touched upon in Discord.
Last edited by Pascal123 on Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Flynn Flan
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RE: Koenigsegg's PK Appeal

Post by Flynn Flan »

[quote="ZeroNetAlpha" pid='5366' dateline='1537669328']
Flynn. First off, this ban appeal has little to do with you. If you had ANY idea about the relation between Prax Resca and one of my characters, you wouldn't be so quick to call ME out on metagrudging her. My point about it still valid. Immediately insulting people the moment they step off the tram, when they haven't said anything or interacted with you at all during the shift isn't okay.
[/quote]

Clearly, as per the evidence stated by Pascall, this also has little to do with you

[quote="Pascal123" pid='5367' dateline='1537676880']
People like Prax (And there are a few, i don't see why only Prax should be the exception. If all of a sudden, admins feel the need to punish for this.). That is to say, crewmembers who are a little less then sunshine and rainbows. I happen to consider, a good thing. Even as a Security Main. Why? Because they give security something to do, and prevent the game from stagnating into what can only be described as, an internet chatroom. They are a necessary evil. Especially since, for whatever reason. "Secret" was removed from rotation, and we are now forced to rely on "Admin Events" to be given purpose. Admin events which rarely occur. As a result, rounds are, to be frank. Boring. Without someone to stir the pot.
[/quote]

Highly agreed
Every
Single
Word
Last edited by Flynn Flan on Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Sylas
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RE: Koenigsegg's PK Appeal

Post by Sylas »

Pascal123 wrote: ZeroNetAlpha
"Immediately insulting people the moment they step off the tram, when they haven't said anything or interacted with you at all during the shift isn't okay."
As the "specific character" in question. I can easily tell you that, That's not what happened at all. And i'd like to know what you were told about the situation.

As for Polymorph's statement.
"With all of that said... a PK is a rare incident for Citadel, and given it wasn't declared explicitly it was coming,"

Not only is it a "rare incident". This is the only incident, i believe everyone was under the assumption that PK's would never occur, regardless of circumstance. While it is true that Prax can occasionally be a hassle to deal with, their only crime in this instance would be back and forth insulting someone for two minutes. I do not believe the plasma fire was their fault. And i think  the decision to punish them was executed poorly, especially given they were not forewarned of the potential consequence for their actions in a given round, beforehand. Or even spoken about their behavior OOCly by Staff. When on Virgo, they would. and should be.

People like Prax (And there are a few, i don't see why only Prax should be the exception. If all of a sudden, admins feel the need to punish for this.). That is to say, crewmembers who are a little less then sunshine and rainbows. I happen to consider, a good thing. Even as a Security Main. Why? Because they give security something to do, and prevent the game from stagnating into what can only be described as, an internet chatroom. They are a necessary evil. Especially since, for whatever reason. "Secret" was removed from rotation, and we are now forced to rely on "Admin Events" to be given purpose. Admin events which rarely occur. As a result, rounds are, to be frank. Boring. Without someone to stir the pot.

I also believe that Jade handled this unprofessionally, given his involvement, and unnecessary public disclosure. But that's another subject.
One i'd briefly touched upon in Discord.
I dont appreciate you stating I handled it unprofessionally when you yourself dont even have the full context.

I discussed the situation with other staff, and it was decided that the ban be placed after about a half hour.

Due to the fact that there have been numerous complaints about Prax self antagging the prior round, it absolutely was called for to announce what was officially done about it.

I was not involved with the incident leading to the bans, either.


And this being the only icident of a PK does not matter, and neither does everyones belief that it wouldnt happen.

If the character proves to be the main cause of an issue that has received more than enough warnings to correct, the character will be no longer allowed to be used.

The character was the main problem, the player is usually fine.

The server ban was delivered due to the caliber of the over escalation involved in the round, which others suggested it be made three days instead of the week after I had already applied the ban.


I'm fine with a ban sentence reduuction on the server part, to three days total.
Additionally, to have a proper record of a warning to correct the character's behavior, with a PK being my suggestion from the start, I will allow them to play the character again on their return with a zero tolerance warning.

They +will+ adhere to this, by adding in their security records that ay medium infraction and above proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, will be considered a capital offense punishable by HuT and judgement by nanotrasen pending.

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RE: Koenigsegg's PK Appeal

Post by Pascal123 »

Sylas wrote: I dont appreciate you stating I handled it unprofessionally when you yourself dont even have the full context.

I discussed the situation with other staff, and it was decided that the ban be placed after about a half hour.

Due to the fact that there have been numerous complaints about Prax self antagging the prior round, it absolutely was called for to announce what was officially done about it.

I was not involved with the incident leading to the bans, either.


And this being the only icident of a PK does not matter, and neither does everyones belief that it wouldnt happen.

If the character proves to be the main cause of an issue that has received more than enough warnings to correct, the character will be no longer allowed to be used.

The character was the main problem, the player is usually fine.

The server ban was delivered due to the caliber of the over escalation involved in the round, which others suggested it be made three days instead of the week after I had already applied the ban.


I'm fine with a ban sentence reduuction on the server part, to three days total.
Additionally, to have a proper record of a warning to correct the character's behavior, with a PK being my suggestion from the start, I will allow them to play the character again on their return with a zero tolerance warning.

They +will+ adhere to this, by adding in their security records that ay medium infraction and above proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, will be considered a capital offense punishable by HuT and judgement by nanotrasen pending.
Judging from what other staff have said, it would seem there was a miscommunication on what exactly, happened. And how it did, but that's not unusual.

Nobody complained in OOC, You had no reason to disclose your actions in OOC, which caught people by surprise, prompting statements such as "Whoa hold the fuck up, we're doing character deaths now?" and was met with mixed reception between those actively present and discussing it, you then told people "Not to spark a debate on discord" about it. Those who complained before this decision in Discord were eight uninvolved parties, briefly echo chambering as usual, when they see potential "Drama". The only relevant parties were, an officer who, from my understanding; caused the plasma fire, or was around when someone came in with a lit cigar, effectively causing the plasma fire. And Kori, who said a brief piece.

You were, as you had actively been playing and stated that you were attempting to interact with Prax as a Cargo Technician while they were being hunted, for whatever reason, you thought that would be a good idea, to attempt ICly. In such a situation, and based your decision off it, in OOC, announcing that you had "PK'd" and "Banned" them for a week.

Perhaps you shouldn't lie to the playerbase, or make it seem as though other admins have lied, then. As it was stated that, we "Don't have PK". And that "PK is dumb", "Can we not PK please, it's aids." "No PK." "I don't want to enforce PK." Etcetera, whenever the concept was brought up in the past by players, responses by admins.

They were not warned, ever. From my understanding. not ICly. Not OOCly. That their behavior should be "Improved", or that they would be "PK'd". Throwing a few insults is hardly being the "Main cause of an issue". Quite frankly, we'd need to ban a lot of people for that.


"Additionally, to have a proper record of a warning to correct the character's behavior, with a PK being my suggestion from the start, I will allow them to play the character again on their return with a zero tolerance warning."

That seems rather harsh for someone who was, never warned in the first place. or officially told that their behavior was an issue, and asked to tone it down.
Last edited by Pascal123 on Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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RE: Koenigsegg's PK Appeal

Post by Koenigsegg »

I forgot to mention that the leak was of my doing, fire wasn't. If you bothered to question me (and I was still logged in to the server, in the lobby), I would've told you that I had planned to mine the last rock to reach the outside. But that I had an inflatable box with inflatable walls in order to both stop the leak and block the only access that could've led to me on the spot.

If you feel like checking the logs for said inflatable box, be my guest. There is also two characters that can vouch for me, since they more than likely saw the notice when I stored it in.

A lot of characters and players tried to interact with me. All did not bother trying to interact in such a way that it would've possibly defused the ongoing issues and problems. No, instead people whined to security, brought it up with command and explicitely suggested my permanent death.

We are a community, prove me wrong. Everyone always complained whenever I did or said something. I never complained when I had to face the consequences. I am reasonable, in the event a fight arise because a reason or another. The sole purpose of my NIF is to have the AR feature and check for the health bar. Whenever I attacked someone, it was to force their early departure. Some did not leave, retaliating on purpose and thus leading to an higher sentence for me. Once I threatened Blep-Lep. I was a paramedic at the time and told them that I'd rough them up. I could've easily won the fight, yet once again I followed the rules. No powergaming. Yet once we started the fight, I was surprised to have a bottle smashed over my head for the precious knock down and being beaten up on the ground.

You cannot, with all due respect, claim that I do everything to fuck with everyone and win. Anyway, I did not want this appeal to turn into a no man's land where we have to shoot at each other from afar. If Prax is to be allowed again, I'd like a formal/official post, because I show no interest in all this drama.

Also, this is just a suggestion, but if yourself you know that I am not a bad player, the least you could do next time is to consult me. I don't recall lying to any of the admins, ever. If you are to work with only one side of the story, you'll get nothing but people mostly pissed at me and my character that doesn't hug everyone on sight. As for this no tolerance rule, I'm fine with it. It would just sound too easy for someone that doesn't like me to whine and induce me, whatever, and get what they want.

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RE: Koenigsegg's PK Appeal

Post by raiq »

Let's not forget the constant shit that Prax would spew in Discord PMs after/during rounds whenever they did this self antagonizing stuff, instantly and consistently calling "metagrudge"

Image

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Koenigsegg
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RE: Koenigsegg's PK Appeal

Post by Koenigsegg »

It's easy to forget. Luckily, I do not forget when I am stabbed in the back. I've been fairly polite this day, to a person that constantly claimed that 'they didn't know' whenever truth was shoved into their face.

But I don't see the point of talking over an issue that happened a while ago and eventually got you permabanned. Last I recall, it wasn't your first strike. Also, you are giving screenshots, not a context, therefore you do not prove any point.

If I am to remind you of what happened this day, you were a K9 cyborg that barged in dorms to arrest me with so little roleplay, after you called out my roleplay partner over common coms, just like you loved to do. You even shot someone on purpose, thus breaking your laws, for the sole reason that you wanted to show your superiority or get revenge for the consequences your were unable to accept. There is a lot to say about your horrendous behavior, but this is not the topic today.

I regret none of what was said. Now we can move on, I don't see what you are trying achieve here, if it's not some sort of last stand.

Edit: You are the only player I've spoken to like that in ages, after breaking my fun in mere seconds with zero effort. Have a good day.
Last edited by Koenigsegg on Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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RE: Koenigsegg's PK Appeal

Post by raiq »

Koenigsegg wrote: It's easy to forget. Luckily, I do not forget when I am stabbed in the back. I've been fairly polite this day, to a person that constantly claimed that 'they didn't know' whenever truth was shoved into their face.

But I don't see the point of talking over an issue that happened a while ago and eventually got you permabanned. Last I recall, it wasn't your first strike. Also, you are giving screenshots, not a context, therefore you do not prove any point.

If I am to remind you of what happened this day, you were a K9 cyborg that barged in dorms to arrest me with so little roleplay, after you called out my roleplay partner over common coms, just like you loved to do. You even shot someone on purpose, thus breaking your laws, for the sole reason that you wanted to show your superiority or get revenge for the consequences your were unable to accept. There is a lot to say about your horrendous behavior, but this is not the topic today.

I regret none of what was said. Now we can move on, I don't see what you are trying achieve here, if it's not some sort of last stand.

Edit: You are the only player I've spoken to like that in ages, after breaking my fun in mere seconds with zero effort. Have a good day.
Except you did exactly what happened on this ban.

You talked a bunch of garbage over comms, then tried to hide somewhere the rest of the shift and screech whenever an officer went to arrest you. At least this time you didn't ghost out of your body and leave an admin sit, huh?

"breaking your fun in mere seconds".. yeah, because sitting here and spewing toxic shit at people shift start or regarding other characters is totally fun for everyone, right?

Anyway, to the admins, I tossed this in because it's been a consistent problem for months, something I've been bringing up along with a regular number of other players.

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