Ban Appeal 7 days

[Snowdragon01]

BYOND Name: SnowDragon01

Reason Banned: Failure to perform duties as a CMO and assaulting/Detaining lower rankings in the department.

Admin who banned: Rubu...

Length Banned: 7 days, CMO permenant






I've been thinking for this a while an in all honesty this was overboard.

"Failure to do duties as CMO"
That is horribly incorrect. During that round Healing chemicals were made, Cryo was set up, Investigated a possible boreers, Healed a few people and talked to the one medical staff we had. Heck even attempted to give Reece chemistry access but he all ready had it.

"assaulting/Detaining lower rankings in the department for no reason."
 True but untrue at the same time. It was attempting to put someone in handcuffs by walking up to them. There was no baton chasing, no disarm, not punching and no persistence. Literally walked up to them, tried to put handcuffs on and they walked away. End of story. I will admit that was not fitting for a head to do but honestly with all the low rp shit that happens on in the server it didn't seem like any would care.
 Why were the handcuffs placed? They were purple, looked kinky. They were not going to be left on them and me not attempting to further put them on him proves that statement to be more likely.
 He then wanted chemistry access, I go into my office with his card and said something like "Aha! Now I have two cards now" and then awaited for his response. His immediate response was "I'll going to have centcom remove you from the station then."
"Fine you want to act like an asshole I'll just make you madder and mess with you" is what basically went in me head at this moment. I ran into the medical lobby with his clown and said his ID was going to the clown (It wasn't.)
Now all of this is trolly at best.  Not breaking the rules but trolly.

This is where everyone keeps getting stuck at. It's a little blurry for me but I can tell you I didn't mean to hit him.
I came back and stood next to Reece wanting to hit him with his card (Does no damage and is kinda playful.) I also seen his Police baton and wanted to disarm before he used it on me. I accidentally hit him and he collapsed. Some say I should've used the baton but I was on the wrong intent and probably would've hit him with it since again wrong intent.
There is literally nothing in the rules stating how conflicts should arise. All it states is murder which I didn't do and I didn't beat them into crit.  Is it that unreasonable to see someone that you angered now has a stun baton to attempt to disarm it before they use it? In all honesty being punched probably hurts less than being hit with a metal stick. Literally imagine a metal rod hitting you at full strength from another being then imagine being punched. They both hurt.
Another reason for the disarm (that was accidently punched) was well it didn't hurt them or stun. 

Ok for I myself have some issues with their play. 

• For one thing you don't go around threatening to contact admins its just stupid. 
• You may say that I was in the wrong here but not contacting security and getting weapons to solve the situation by yourself is also not the correct solution. You should probably have instead contacted security first and allow them to do the job they were trained for rather than not contacting them and grabbing an illegal weapon for yourself to solve the situation yourself.

(In all honesty being beat with a giant metal stick probably hurts more than a punch.)

You have no rule about escalation of fights itself and a lower ranking having a stun baton is not really a minor thing. All that the rules mention is being murdered which even there I didn't break any rules. Being a shit Head of staff? Rules mention nothing about it. Failure to duty? Nooo and read above.
7 days because I returned the pissy attitude he had and a permanent CMO ban? That's to much. (Was also told temp head ban but apparently someone changed their mind.) It's not like I did something like this in the past.

Possible rule breaks
Section 4,  Head of staff Title, Rules 2 and 7. If you want to argue those than do it.

On a side note the admin said "I do this shit a lot." No I do not and I have not repeated a rule break twice. Unless you mean the reason for being banned before this ban which for starters they were beat into crit and in this scenario they were hit once and that was an accident. Then there were people claiming I built a Tesla that round (Which I didn't and even if I did well thats even more of a reason to do so but nope topic locked.)

---

Redid my entire appeal to be shorter and more concise.

I've said this before but  this isn't worth a seven day ban and I feel someone is holding a grudge or something in the staff circle. This entire event was minor and I'm actually surprised anything this severe happened.

[Mahei]

Hello,

I talked to Sevn before posting here to make sure it was alright. So, I was the lone doctor in that round that Snow mentioned and while I was not there for the confrontations with Reece, I can say that until he was required to speak to the admins Snow was in fact doing all he said to assist in medical and more. I'm still rather new to the position (And SS13 in general to be honest) and he covered many, many things that I would have never of thought of doing at round start, as well as handle chemist duties as I have utterly zero experience in the matter. He was spending just as much as me in the medbay doing work and covering for the gaps in my experience so I do feel confident saying that the charge that he was not doing his duties as a CMO is quite incorrect.

[Snowdragon01]

It should be noted that I attempted to even resolve this by asking if giving Reece an LOOC apology would be ok. No reply.

I'm not sure what the admin meant by I break the same rules constantly and do this shit a lot but I really don't.  I have not broken the same rule twice. For all the reasons you listed to me that I was banned over was not done twice and even then half of the provided reasons were totally incorrect.
What was listed that was incorrect? Well for starters the topic of the previous paragraph. Saying I didn't do my duties (I did) and detaining lower rankings in my department. (Read my updated section of what happened in the original post.)
As for the admin thinking I do this a lot who knows what they were thinking. You mean my previous ban appeal and what someone brought there? If so most of the things they mentioned didn't even happen that round and regardless they don't know engineering.


I'll admit how I handled this situation with the virologist could've been better. In Looc I could've said "It's a fucking joke stop walking like you have a stick up your ass." The Id would've never been missing, he would've never got an illegal weapon (Illegal to him) and I would've never punched him (accidentally). In all honesty I'm still learning that even if I was in the right this type of reaction can get me in trouble. This doubles for real life as well.
I would've been happier, unbanned and still playing on the server. If he did try to ahelp me over that one sentence well good fucking luck. But because a step further was taken guess what. Now I'm in the wrong.

But I mean 7 day ban on something you didn't even list correct information for is a bit much especially when the guidelines suggest major rule break 1 day, Griefing 3 days. I got more than double for griefing punishments.


"Show blatant disregard for the rules"
Actually no.  For the recent situations I've been in I've read a lot about the rules and do not try to break them. Heck I even gave you the possible rules that could've broken over the vague reasons listed. However it seems to be less of breaking any rules at all and more from the "ADMINISTRATION & PUNISHMENT POLICY."
The only line in there that applies to this situation really is this "incompetence, abuse, or feigning ignorance/purposefully making the lives of other players difficult.."

Really incompetence is not the issue here and nor is abuse (Doesn't exactly explain what abuse means for this situation.) The only one that could even be applied here is "Making the lives of other players more difficult." Yes I did that but to a player not to many players. Not exactly breaking any of the rules or worthy of a seven day ban.
========================================================================================================================================================

To prove the points above all rules regarding Head of staff will be listed and disproved if I didn't do that.

Rules
Heads of staff
1. As a head, your authority begins and ends in your department. Only the HoS has jurisdiction outside of their department regarding security matters.
2. Treat your staff fairly. Avoid assigning them obnoxious tasks or reprimanding/demoting them over minor issues.
3. Heads (other than the HoS) can act as security in an emergency, but should hand over any prisoners to actual members of security for processing.
4. Heads should be promoted internally from their own department by the captain or acting captain only.
5. All heads are expected to give warning to both admins and their colleagues in-character before disconnecting.
6. If you are a head, lead your department. Extending time AFK, ERPing, or ignoring your staff is not acceptable.
7. If a head of staff is found to be abusive, uncooperative, unpopular, or etc., they can be deposed of by the other heads of staff or the captain. Otherwise they may be removed by an admin.

My response
Lets go through these.

1. This rule was not broken. At no time did I try to arrest anyone outside of my department.
2. Did not assign annoying tasks or actually demote them. Even if I did demote them carrying around a stunbaton and getting me arrested was not minor.
3. Does not apply to this situation, was not broken anyways
4. Rule does not affect situation and was unbroken.
5. Rule does not affect situation and was unbroken.
6. Rule does not affect situation and was unbroken.
7. I was not abusive, uncooperative or unpopular. Lower ranking asked for chemistry access, they were going to get it but already had it. Thats being cooperative. Unpopular usually means disliked by more than one person. Nobody else had any major problems with me.

Now lets take a look on escalation rules (keep in mind its a single section that lists rules for murder and onyl murder but they are disproven in this situation as if they were for general use.)


Rules
3. Murder is only justifiable as long as it was properly escalated.

1. You can’t go from a single rude punch to a knife in the neck. You can, however, go from a single punch to a counter punch to a brawl to using weapons, and so on.
2. Other IC justifications may exist for murder, but these are on a case by case basis.
3. Minor aggravations like demotions, pranks, insults, or thefts are not adequate justification.

My response 
1. I did not go from a rude punch to a knife in a kneck. In fact all that ever happened was a (Accidental) rude punch. In fact I wasn't even the side that first started to use weapons.
2. irrelevant and cannot be applied to the situation as nobody died.
3. irrelevant as this rule is saying when murder is allowed and list actions that fights can start over as unworthy for murder. So you can't really apply that here.

Rules
1. Do your job; if you take a role in a department you should actually fulfill that role.

My Response
Job was done, read above.





What would I like to see from this appeal
1. The Pban on CMO be removed
2. Ban shortened (All ready served 3 days.)

I'll also bring this up into consideration.

(Quote from the administrative punishment policy.)

Minor Rule Breaking: 1-3 hour ban (60 - 180 minutes)
Major Rule Breaking: 1 day ban (1440 minutes)
Griefing: 3 day ban (4320 minutes)

My response
Now I know this is a rule of thumb and doesn't have to be 100% followed but come on. Some of the reasons you listed to ban someone you never investigated or even asked about and the others are not worth banning 10 days over. This is over double the punishment of griefing and even if it was griefing its still excessive by your standards.

[Kersakof]

I don't like any of this rules lawyering this app has. The CMO ban has been discussed by the admins and will instead be changed to a 2 week headban from the point of when you were banned. So you'll have a 1 week headban after the ban lifts.

[Vincent Airin]

It has been brought to my attention that you feel that a 7 day ban for this infraction is unfair. I would like to point out to you sir/madam, that you have been previously banned for such offenses in the past. Your previous server ban having been a week long ban as it was.

I will remind you, that there is a zero tolerance policy held for repeat offenders. If you have been banned before in recent times, such is the case with yourself, you will accrue a harsher penalty for said repeated offenses. You spent your round ignoring duties and assaulting your subordinates all because they asked you to keep working as a department head. This sort of behavior is unacceptably no matter how much rule lawyering you attempt in this case.

However, to remain on topic, your permanent CMO ban is indeed being removed in lue of a temporary ban as I was under the impression you were CE banned and not just engineering banned. By technicality it is your first head ban after all.. Your server ban in this case will not be. If anything, the lack of being told of all previous offenses involving server bans has afforded you a shortened sentence already.

In regards to your cited server ban policies, these are set for first time offenses and are NOT the standard when contending with repeat and or absurd offenders. Otherwise there is no fear of reprisal for the most extreme of cases or from constant consecutive infractions.


Sincerely: Airinnann (Vincent Airin)

JDM 11/15/2017 4:51pm EST

[Snowdragon01]

But that is incorrect I did not spend my round time ignoring my duties and I would hardly call a situation that lasted maybe a few minutes as the entire shift. Someone who even worked with me came into the thread and said that I did my duties.
Also please do not make it sound like I assaulted multiple people, it was one and that was by mistake and even if it wasn't by mistake they had a weapon on them that I had good IC reason to believe they would use on me.
Heck I even made sure they had chemistry access and went back to give them their card but then the "Assault happened."

Explain specifically how this is a repeat offence and what offence was repeated please.

My previous server ban was not a 7 day ban but was a 3 day ban and also please state specifically about what that happened from my last ban that would count as a repeat offence in this one.
If you are using the Engineering to say that because of that ban this is a repeat offence that is also incorrect. At the time of that ban I was not even playing a head nor in this situation did I decide to release a plasma canister and light it in attempt to murder someone.
If you mean logging out as a head of staff that is also not a repeat offence here as I didn't break a rule by logging out in this round.

This is why I ask you to be specific. What is the repeat offence?

The reason why I quoted rules so much is because well everyone says follow them but when they're used in defense it's lawyer. Thats a stupid and dangerous train of thought. Might as well ban me because I slipped someone on a banana peel, quote the rules saying nothing I did was broken and then lock the appeal for lawyering.

[Vincent Airin]

I feel I was, ill defined in what I meant as repeated offense. In reference to such I was referring to the simple fact that you had just come off of a server ban before. It's not so much that you had a repeated offense of the previous ban's cause, but rather that it was felt that you required ANOTHER server ban to reflect on what you had done.

I was informed on the situation in the admin chat and rendered judgement with the presented information available. As such, when a new ban was deemed appropriate, the previous infraction and time between was taken into account. I will apologize in that it seems miscommunication was had on the exact time of the previous one, being that it was 3 days and not a week, however by the same process the week server ban does still apply. And looking at your listed track record, you have shown a poor tendency to simply beat fellow crewmen for now excusable reason. Which was actually part of the reason for BOTH of your last two bans.

Airinnann (Vincent Airin)

JDM 11/15/2017 7:36 pm EST

[Snowdragon01]

Now I will admit that I have calmed down a lot from trying to murder the CE with a plasma fire do to their attitude. It's also been a while since then. Also the cargo ban in all honesty I'm really tempted to open up another appeal over since many people I have talked to including some staff disagreed with it. Thats for another topic though.

Lets see what other offences do I remember beating up people over and got noted for?

Attempting to shoot someone through a mass driver as a borg.
This in all honesty was all ready debunked and I should appeal for the note to be removed. Proof can be provided by reddit post that even shows staff members (or those claiming to be) of citadel admitting nothing bad happened but my explanation was poor.

Shooting someone whom I had strong reason to believe that they murdered me.  Makes sense RP wise, even other people thought they were a antag including the HoS that congratulated me.

The Cargo incident
This ban was unjustified and in all honesty is still under dispute dispute the topic being locked before having a chance to reply.

This incident
It's not really a repeat of the last offence really especially since nobody was beat into critical. Even Sven admitted in the notes of the cargo incident (accidentally probably) that what I did was almost ok. When I asked "What would've been proper escalation" he said to apply bruise packs after the fight. The other person was hit only once compared to the last ban and even then there was escalation for it. Despite even loosing the fight to type I'm sorry it was an accident is still unacceptable apparently.
Current Ban


In short two of these I won't give you, one of these eh it's debate able and one I was in the fault.

So yeah I see your point although I do not agree with them. Yes the notes look bad but really some are not as bad as they seem.

[Snowdragon01]

Topic is over.