[Dapnee] Deus Sepulchre - Main Server Head Ban

[dumpythethickest]

BYOND account and character name: Deus Sepulchre (Icktsie III)

Banning admin: Dapnee

Ban type/duration (where you are banned from and for how long):You have been jobbanned by Dapnee from: Captain, Head of Personnel, Head of Security, Chief Engineer, Research Director, Chief Medical Officer, Quartermaster.

The reason is: As acting captain (HoP), wore captains gear and tried getting a miner to implant the disk in them while a doctor was willing and able to do the surgery. This combined with the last two recent notes, your history, and the way you responded to this ahelp https://pastebin.com/f9b4qGGv are the factors of why this is occuring. Please keep discussion of this ban to the forums/staff forum, but also you need a break from the game if you're literally vomitting as you say.

Your side of the story: I think the issue is self-evident and doesn't take a lot of explaining. While it was still a green shift I grabbed a coat, backpack, and sword from the Captain's locker as HoP without a captain. I then chose to have a random miner instead of a doctor implant me for the reason I specified in the attached paste bin: I think it balances out the powergameyness of implanting the disk inside me and I think it's fun to rp with people who don't understand surgery. I wasn't aware we had any revolutionaries at this point in the match. I don't believe my correspondence with the admin was intended to be rude nor do I think it was rude while looking back at it. Nor do I think the tone of my response should matter in handling a situation such as this. Of course, in this round the person doing the surgery knew what they were doing but I wasn't going to throw them out over that. I also returned the Captain's sword upon learning that it was against the rules to secure it as I should of. Furthermore, just because I point out a certain inconsistency in admin responses doesn't mean I was implying anything more as the later responses seemed to imply. I took a coat, a backpack, and a sword and received a permanent ban and had to deal with ahelps all shift which in the end caused more harm for the round then me having a coat in the first place. This is the classic issue of Citadel admin interference into rounds. I also don't believe there is a history of me making poor choices as an HoP especially after the recent unbanning where I've thoroughly marked down access and taken things extremely seriously. I think what this boils down to was I was in a hectic round that got hectic after the first ahelp, I reconised that I needed to focus on the round, there was admin-side misinterpretation, and in all honesty this was all handled so excessively poorly by Dapnee that I don't believe I should humor it by putting any more effort into this response. Also:
``22:55:10: PM From Dapnee/(Nia Shaffer): Your recent behaviour as a head of staff through your note(?|F) history and previously being told NOT to wear the captains gear as acting captain(?|F) by other admins. The fact you did this and the miner(?|F) thing at the mere mention of revs has me question if you can take being head of staff.``
I was not aware there were revolutionaries at this point. I still do not recall ever receiving a message from an admin telling me not to 'wear the captains gear as acting captain by other admins.'


Why you think you should be unbanned: Because being informed that you're not supposed to take the Captain's sword as an HoP who thinks it's a green shift and proceeding to rectify that behavior doesn't permit being banned from every head of staff role. It permits looking into Dapnee as an admin and their choices.

[SectoidDan]

First of all, the fact that you've been banned from HoP before does indicate a history of poor choices, doesn't it? Given how recently that ban was lifted and the warnings I see in your notes, the punishment given here does not seem especially excessive.

Second, admins should not need to remind you not to take the captain's gear as acting captain, as that is right there in the rules and always has been. The onus is on you to make sure you know and follow the rules, nobody else. For someone so fresh off a headban I would expect you to be a lot more familiar with the rules revolving around heads of staff.

Third, as kev said in his big wall of text to you, admins do understand if you're distracted or otherwise unable to answer our questions fully right when we ask them. However, that's very different from simply brushing admins off or unilaterally deciding something isn't worth talking about with us, which is what it looks like was happening here. Further, as kev pointed out, bringing in otherwise irrelevant things like how much other people like what you do, and how you're sure the community will agree with you, etc is not much of a defence and I could definitely see it being interpreted as a low-key threat to stir up a shitstorm over this, though the fact that you haven't actually done anything like that yet is definitely encouraging. At the time of the bwoink however, I don't blame Dap for seeing it that way.

Finally, I'm sorry to hear that you're ill. If you're literally taking time out of your round to go vomit, that might be an indicator that you should excuse yourself from the round if you're playing an important role. That's kind of what cryo is there for, and if you can't make it there easily you can always ahelp for an admin to help you. Sticking around while you're that sick does a disservice to yourself and to the rest of the players who rely on the acting captain.

I don't see this jobban being lifted any time soon, unfortunately. If you showed us that you understood why we take issue with your attitude here and resolve to improve, I'd be happy to push for it to be changed to a timed ban instead of perma.

[dumpythethickest]

No, a previous HoP ban doesn't indicate a history of poor choices. The banning admin even recognized the fault and you'd have to look into it yourself.I was a well known HoP player and most people were confused about the ban along with my choice to never appeal it. This should not effect your judgement on this ban. For example, you reading those messages from me without seeing how I was responding while the bridge I was in was locked and air siphoned as I was sending the messages paints a different picture and really only adds up to second hand information.

No to your second point, plenty of people need to be reminded of small things they may have missed. The question isn't if you 'should be reminding people' and the question should instead be ''did they take initiative and rectify it and do they have a history of being needed to be reminded' and the answers would respectively be yes and no. That's why after my head ban that I chose not to appeal due to boredom with the role over a reason that was agreed upon to be more complex than what it initially seemed I made an effort to be a very good HoP and I did.
Third, I did not brush off admins. I just responded to Dapnee non-emotionally while balancing playing the game, correcting my mistake by returning the sword while dealing with revs and air siphoning, and simultaneously puking irl which was all quite a scene really. I never argued 'my actions were fine I don't need to correct them' I corrected them then explained that there is reason for me not to know. Furthermore, there is still absolutely no reason why allowing a shaft miner to perform surgery on you is ahelp material. Here you say a lot about low key threats but Dapnee was the only one who escalated things when she told me I would be head of staff banned.
Finally, I'm just a good head of staff player. Like... I am. I play to make others have fun and don't have an exceedingly large list of stupid decisions to my name. I think this is a knee jerk reaction to... I don't even know. Like I actually sat down this week and made an effort to play HoP very, very well and I just got banned from all Head of Staff positions due to a mistake with a situation I either haven't been put in before or haven't in the four months I chose never to appeal.

[HazelBailey]

Ultimately, the way you responded in the ticket is what caught you the ban. It likely would've just been a warning and a note but stuff like...

22:38:34: Reply PM from-Deus Sepulchre/(Icktsie III): Nothing I need to talk about right now. We have revs

22:39:11: Reply PM from-Deus Sepulchre/(Icktsie III): I'm aware but it's an ahelp I'll address later.

22:49:22: Reply PM from-Deus Sepulchre/(Icktsie III): We can talk about this later after I put back the captain's saber

and especially...



Comes across as petty and feels like you're completely blowing off the admin trying to talk to you in the first place while taking jabs at them IC. If it weren't for that, you would've gotten off with a note and nothing more.

EDIT: I'd also like to mention how incredibly rude it was to the doctor to just ignore them. They joined the round to do medical work, so it's kind of a slap in the face for you to walk in, tell them "I dont let doctors operate on me", shove them out of surgery, and then have a miner do it instead because that somehow makes putting the disk in you less powergamey. Having the miner do it while teaching them to do it is very LRP, and if anything make it more powergamey since you're ignoring a doctor, to instead teach a miner to do it and have them do so instead, when neither of you should have that knowledge ICly.

[Dapnee]

Hello there, been busy and unable to respond for a day, but let’s crack this open.

My reasoning is as stated in your headrole ban note. You wouldn’t give me the time of the day until minutes into the ticket, after you’d decided it was actually going to become more. When I asked about you wearing the captains parade uniform, captains gloves, captains backpack, and the captains saber, you elected to ignore me on something that is very much not equipment allowed for an acting captain (as outlined in the final bullet point under https://katlin.dog/citadel-rules/main#c ... ng-captain ). I made the line of questioning only into the coat before looking harder. Instead of accepting this as against the acting captain policy, you continued about your time ignoring me completely, making an IC captains announcement over me and others bringing up a broken rule OOC, until the part in the ahelp where you finally go to “put away the sword”. The initial ahelp was just asking you to stow the captain items that made it unclear you were the head of Personnel and would of stayed as such if it occurred/you gave my questioning a second of thought.

Just after starting the PM with you, a doctor contacted me over the whole “let me get a miner to shove the NAD into my chest” thing. While having knowledge of job mechanics not ordinary to your job is acceptable on main, I feel this was completely a form of powergaming. First, you DIDN'T need to keep the disk this close to your hip during a round of what you at the time ascertained as a green shift. Most antags (minus traitors and nuclear operatives) do not need the disk, this was done primarily to fuck over anyone that may later need it cause dynamic exists or possibly to prevent people from setting off the nuke. You elected to grab the first person you saw. Cargo is in front of the HoPs office and you chose a miner, someone who’s outside of your jurisdiction as Acting Captain, to boss around. Your reasoning for this was:

First and foremost, I've been praised in voice chat by plenty of people for that decision. I feel that getting the disk implanted is someone what powergay so I usually teach someone surgery and pick somebody who doesn't want to give it to me. I think it balances it out and I've been told by a lot of people this is a good thing. I dunno. Plus its funny.

“I’ve been praised” is not a substitute for doing the right thing. Just because it’s a meme doesn’t make it something you’re allowed to do. It’s is very power gay, no matter how you try to stave off it by teaching someone a skill in the game. You very literally pushed away a doctor and took over the operating room cause you’re following some strategy you hoped wouldn’t be considered powergaming. If this was last ditch, no medbay/no medbay staff/confirmed syndicate in search of the NAD, I would consider being lenient here, but no.

Yes, main is game oriented, and yes, I understand it’s revs and at any moment they can break in with a toolbox but I asked you two questions, both that could of been ended earlier if you simply answered and been more willing to speak over. But instead we got in a long argument that lasted most of the round, long enough that science researched AI modules and relawed the AI to try and suffocate you.

Now, when I stated past history, you have two notes on the tenth and twentieth of this very month over HoP behavior, along with your previous HoP ban. I hold the notes as a higher precedent but you also had to appeal the HoP ban, regardless of how unlucky you got with it. I expect people playing head roles and appealing to head bans to read the rules of how to be a head of staff. At one point I bring up you being told not to wear the captains equipment by other admins, I had been discussing the ahelp with Kevin since he was present and he told me in adminchat that you’ve been told by him and another admin not to take beyond what acting captains are allowed to take. Since there are no notes on this factor, I’m willing to ignore this, only because I can not say how long ago these occurred. Kevin, beyond his words in the ahelp and the previous statement did not contribute further to the decision to ban you, but I did.

Along with this entire note and ban, I added on to the end with you keeping this to either #staff-forum or here on the forums. The moment after the ban is applied, you went straight to main chat and posted the ban to everyone. Now I understand you’d be upset over being banned, I can’t imagine anyone would find it less than fun, but you turned this around to get other players involved where honestly they shouldn’t be. You broke rules and then excused your behavior while also being curt, ignoring me, and trying to play off the blame by saying “I see it all the time”. You are not going to get some boon of the public coming in and saying you “are a good HoP” when you can’t play to the rules and act at the very least like you’re taking what I’m talking about seriously. After asking you to stop multiple times, you waited and then began the song and dance up again.

This ultimately got you kicked from the discord. And yes, I did it, as playing chicken with me gets you no sympathy. I, or any other admin, may let you back into the crew role when you can follow my final piece of advice on not speaking about your ban outside of the forums where I can see it at least. And I may consider reigning in the amount of time this head role ban is, if and when you can meet me halfway, unlike how you have been handling this.

[Dapnee]

It has been two weeks and a few days without another reply from you, or at most, seeing you in game. You've moved on I'd assume and I will consider closing this thread in a few days. You can always make another thread, but know my point stands.

Edit: Been more than a few days, so moving this to denied.