Citadel Community

(It seems my previous appeal was rejected without anyone addressing the main point i raised:
What could i possibly have done any differently?)

BYOND Name: N0B0DY-1MP0R7AN7
Reason Banned: Absolutely awful behavior displayed on all levels at once. Stalking and harassment of players both on and off the discord without taking no for an answer, attempted emotional manipulation in order to get their way.
Admin who banned: sgtryder
Length Banned: permanent
Appeal Reason:

You can read the detailed reasoning of the appeal and the situation over here:http://citadel-station.net/forum/viewto ... 229c7e65ca

My main question as above still remains: What could i possibly have done any better?
>Absolutely awful behavior displayed on all levels at once
I don't know what exactly this refers to since i was only talking on the discord not even doing anything on the server when i was banned. (this is provable if you look at the database and see that i was editing characters at the time i was banned)
>Stalking and harassment of players both on and off the discord
This is factually false as i had been told (the discord logs should have it) by the player in question that they would unmute me after a day after they muted me in a rage. Trying to then actually ask for this when the day was up was then construed as harrassment.
Off the discord i didn't metagrudge them and avoid their character at all cost, but i certainly did not stalk them.
So in other words this is just simply factually not true in the least bit.
>without taking no for an answer,
This only happened in a separate normal discussion on discord, and not out of malice, but out of genuine curiosity what the answer to a question was. I had accepted the admin ruling immediately and changed things accordingly. (the database files on the other server would prove this) I merely wanted to ask for the reason behind it I have since been informed that admins sometimes just say "shut up" because they cannot deal with too many things at once, and they aren't necessarily great at communication, so i'm not mad at being told to shut up and not ask questions back then. It still doesn't change the fact that my continued asking was never out of malice or trying to force my way but because of a genuine lack of understanding.
Nevertheless i inadvertently prolonged a heated debate which i already apologized for since it was legitimately not my intention.
>attempted emotional manipulation in order to get their way.
This i simply do not understand. While someone could have misinterpreted my curiosity as annoyance if they didn't pay attention to what i said, and someone with the stated intentions of wanting to see me banned like the person in question could have imagined that i was harassing them when i was not.
But this is simply incomprehensible. I am honest to the best of my abilities, including about how i feel about things. Nothing more, nothing less. (if you want i can prove that i'm just straightforward about my emotional state and too emotionally open and bad at communication by bringing a doctors note about my psychological traits)
I have no idea how that could possibly be misconstrued as emotional manipulation.


I have been asked for "new facts" when reappealing, but i have no idea what else there is to say apart from me having disproven each and every single accusation brought against me.
I would even gladly say the usual bootlicking stuff of "promising to improve in X Y Z" and actually try to do so....
But I have no idea how i could have done *anything* differently with all the given facts, and no one has told me either.
If you can suggest something i would gladly try to heed your advice. If you can't then that means you don't know what i could've done any better either.

And this would not be unexpected because i was after all trying to be as nice and as rule following as possible with the information available to me.
As i always have. And always will.

tl:dr nothing in the ban is really correct, provably so, and i was being as nice and rulefollowing as possible, pls unban

I remember this case very clearly, even though I wasn't an admin at the time. Dragor ended up blocking you, for reasons I dont remember, and you went on to constantly complain in discord chat about how you were still blocked and even when people (Some not even admins) were telling you to drop it, you wouldn't. And if I remember correctly, even went as far as to bother them serverside as well over it. Despite what you may think, that IS harassment and you should have left it when you were told he wasn't unblocking you.

To be completely honest, that sort of behavior is pretty childish, and leaves me thinking you might be underage.

And to top it all off, you haven't used our formatting guidelines for the thread title.

Oh, I remember this! I wasn't even an Admin at the time when this happened.
I'll leave this to the others on the Administration team.

I'm sorry i forgot to use the correct title. Fixed it, thanks for reminding me.

As for the post:
a) I only tried contacting him once, and that was because he explicitly said he would unblock me. Other than that i was just complaining. And no, complaining about being blocked by someone is not harrassment of said person. Since wasn't complaining to him just in general, because it made me feel like shit because i really did not want to offend him in any way. I was totally devastated.
b) I did not contact him about this in any way serverside. That is outright false. I made an explicit effort not to metagrudge him and interact with his character normally, not being mean to them or annoying or ooc pester them about it or anything. Not to mention that at the time i was banned i wasn't even in the game.
c) "You should have left it" I was not aware that voicing my feelings about a situation that recently happened to me was a bannable offense. In fact i'm pretty sure it's not. Being sensitive/whiny or whatever you wanna call it is not a bannable offense. Especially since i *did* try to listen to admins when they told me to shut up about it even though it was a dick move to tell me to shut up when i was feeling like shit.

Again what could i have done any better? How could i have known that me complaining because i was feeling like shit about something is something that is not allowed in the discord? When i was told to stop it by admins i still tried to stop asap.

Also i've been playing ss13 for 6 years now. I might be childish but i'm definitely not underage. You may call being devastated about you unwittingly offending someone enough for them to block you "being childish", but it is not a bad thing. I'm very empathetic and care about others feelings. Which is precisely why accusing me of harrassing anyone is pretty damn out there as far as accusations go.

A. I distinctly remember you bugging people to ask him to unblock you, and after a tiny bit of digging on discord, I found this
https://gyazo.com/01e9763c89c07350aa44785fb63541cb
With proves that you did in fact make multiple attempts to contact him after being blocked.
B. After checking with others, I can in fact confirm that this one is false, and simply an error with my own memory
C. Harassing other players is very much against our rules. Bugging other players to have them message him on your behalf certainly counts as this.

I do not support an unban.

I also do not support an unban.

It's not about supporting or not supporting an unban it's about whether you have any actual reason as to why you have banned me.
Please tell me why. "i do not support an unban" without any reason given is really really bad faith.

Also, subtumaka didn't you hate me from the getgo? weren't you on other servers too where you hated me?

Seriously don't just say that i should be banned please actually tell me why. Talk to me!
It's in your own rules for administration!"i do not support an unban" is useless without you giving a reason.
If i have done something wrong you should be able to do so. If i haven't, i don't deserve to be banned.
And if i indeed have done something wrong how am i supposed to know what i should've done if you don't answer me?
Please talk to me!
"i do not support an unban" is useless without you giving a reason.

Hazel yes i asked for someone to contact them. As i said. Because they told me that they would unban me. I asked for this once iirc.
If it happened again it would only be because people started taunting me with them telling lies about me to dragor.

I do understand that constantly bugging others about asking someone to unblock me is not allowed. But
a) this never happened. I wasn't constantly bugging people. What you took as constant asking was mostly just me complaining that i don't know what to do or how to deal with this.
b) try to see things in context. If i asked someone to talk to them after the first refusal to unblock me it was ONLY because people were actively saying bad things about me to dragor to taunt me. What would you have done? I asked them to stop. I asked them to tell him the truth. I asked for someone to tell dragor the truth.
Only after all these things did i ask for someone to tell dragor to unban me so i could explain myself.

When a previous unjust ban was finally lifted by blackmajor i primised him that even with the promised clean sheet i would be as good as possible. And that's what i did. I have been acting as nicely and rule-followingly as humanly possible. I honestly don't know what i could possibly have done any better. If you can give me reasonable things that you yourself would have done in that situation i would gladly say try and iprove upon those things. Because my goal here is not to "be right" but to be a good player in your eyes.

As for the post:
a) I only tried contacting him once, and that was because he explicitly said he would unblock me. Other than that i was just complaining. And no, complaining about being blocked by someone is not harrassment of said person. Since wasn't complaining to him just in general, because it made me feel like shit because i really did not want to offend him in any way. I was totally devastated.
b) I did not contact him about this in any way serverside. That is outright false. I made an explicit effort not to metagrudge him and interact with his character normally, not being mean to them or annoying or ooc pester them about it or anything. Not to mention that at the time i was banned i wasn't even in the game.

Lemme stop you right there. I heard alot of talk otherwise regarding these two A's and B's. But talk is just talk, I decided that I needed hard proof and went to the man himself, Dragor whom you harassed last time, and asked him straight up these two.
Here is what he replied to me.


Also,

>attempted emotional manipulation in order to get their way.
This i simply do not understand. While someone could have misinterpreted my curiosity as annoyance if they didn't pay attention to what i said, and someone with the stated intentions of wanting to see me banned like the person in question could have imagined that i was harassing them when i was not.

This was when you told, tried to pity party several people, an entire chat even. Several times to get them to contact dragor for you because he made you cry.



So there you have it. I am not in support of this unban for yet again lying to admins during an official administrative process.
This is going to be a hard no.

At the very least, we will require you to get another server's admin to vouch for you in order for us to even consider this unban in the future.

I did not lie. You stating so is incredibly mean.
Let me address each of the points you raised:
1: I did send them PDA messages. Exactly like i did to every single other character that round. I have stated this when the harrassment thing was first brought up by dragor on discord. I did not harrass them or anything, i simply sent out the same message to everyone. Because i was an assistant. And instead of playing normally as you shoud he was meta-ing and being rude to me specifically.
2: I was excited about him being max because max was a favorite character of mine. And finding out that he was played by someone who hated me was a shock.
3: Even the admin that brought it up admitted that b) was false after talking to others about this.
4: Even Dragor said that i was just very disappointed. I did not in any way harrass him when he told me to fuck off on the server.
5: I contacted him personally ZERO times ooc because i had no opportunity to do so after being blocked by him. Discord works this way.
6: Scroll up in discord and see for yourself that the one big time when i asked someone to talk to them was when the one day after which he stated he would unblock me was over.
7: Dragor said people said outright that i was getting on their nerves with my whining. The fact that they then chose to contact him to resolve this is not my doing and not my fault.

8: As for the second part. I am an autist. I say what i feel and think. I literally had nightmares that day and i literally felt fucking awful about it because a person i valued suddenly hated me. This is also in the discord logs. And if you want i can give you my doctors note about how i was struggling with extreme social anxiety around that time.
It wasn't emotional manipulation it was legitimately how i felt. I just laid everything bare because i had no idea how to deal with the situation.
9: I did not spend hours telling him to go fuck himself. I said that someone should tell him he was a dick, right when he blocked me. He had told me we could talk again the next day. And then when i asked for that he refused and kept me banned. The reason was that he heard bad things about what i said from others, since he didn't actually see my messages. Ask him about this if you want.
10: I did not constantly ask people to get him to unblock me. I whined about being blocked and not knowing how to deal with it.
The fact that people did ask him possibly multiple times is not on me. I did not expect that people would do that, much less do it in a way that would be annoying to him. Faulting me for the actions of others is not ok. (to clarify: i expected someone level headed to maybe offer to talk to dragor, and maybe explain that he didn't really mean it and i shouldn't take it so seriously, or ask me to prove myself that i'm not just as bad as dragor said and then maybe they would've told dragor as an aside that i'm not actually that bad a person, or dragor would've secretly opened the messages that he had hidden because of him blocking me or something...if this sounds childish and naive... well you have your answer above. I'm not great with social things. But i sure as fuck would not want to annoy or harrass someone i was devastated about hating me in the first place. )


So no i did not lie. Everything i said above is true and in line with the facts you were just given by dragor. For you to try and view everything in the light that the player *must* be in the wrong is really mean.

Also, yeah i can get some admins to vouch for me that is not the issue. Hell i could get some players from citadel and even an admin or two to vouch for me.
The issue is that i do not know why i was banned in the first place.
I do not see how i could have acted any differently or any better given the information i had at hand.
Just an unban without this being resolved is not what i'm after, because
a) If i didn't do anything wrong it would stay on my record and people would assume the ban was justified and admins automatically see me as a huge problem instead of someone who has always been rule-following and nice as possible on here, even though the latter is exactly what i am.
b) If i *did* do something wrong i wouldn't know what it was and vouching for me or not i could inadvertently do it again. In this case i would much rather like to better my behavior and making sure i don't act badly on the server again which bans are intended for.

Because as i said my goal is not just to be able to play on the server my goal is to actually be a good player and for you to see me that way too.