Main - Temp - Both Job & Ban Appeal for tl;dr Generally Shitty Behavior

[DexterDude]

BYOND Name: DexterDude

Reason Banned: http://prntscr.com/nls27h

Admin who banned: RogueSteampunker

Length Banned: Job: Perma/Ban:Week

Appeal Reason: The banning admin has banned me for a week for something as minor as stealing stuff from another job, a ghost role no less.

The said person I stole from was a security officer on charlie station, who had decided to act like an asshole to me when they noticed I had stolen "their" stuff. After leaving the airlock to go recover the medical gear I attempted to re-enter the airlock, but what's this? The said security officer welded me out of the station for stealing his gear. I'm a reasonable person and if the security officer had actually talked to me instead of welding me out of the station completely, for something as simple as that, I might have opted to give them their gear back, or at least some of it.

After this I decided "Fuck it, if he's going to be an asshole, then he can fuck off" essentially, and I went on a space walk around the station to the "umbilical" that linked the primary station body and the science station body. Now previously, I did do meta (since that's what ghost roles really are, it's hard to beat them without a little meta) and I had put the rechargers from the bridge and security in the umbilical on the main station, since I don't know how to put them through to the science wing. I broke the window down VIA shooting it with the laser gun, and I did a stupid and clicked past it expecting the laser shots to hit the window (as opposed to going through) and said laser shots hit the wall while the officer was standing inside. I assume this is where they AHelped at an attempted murder. Now I don't have any pictures of anything as I left the game (stupidly). I don't think I should get a ban for both ghost roles and the actual game for something as minor as taking another jobs gear.

The banning admin also said this: http://prntscr.com/nls0rk

This is, I assume, why I have been banned for so long, and from ghost roles as well, for something so minor as taking another "jobs" (remember, this is a ghost role) gear. I haven't been here for two days, and at the minimum, have been here since 2017 (reminded to me by my head of staff ban.) Now in #staffbus it was brought up that I had an alt account which I notified zelda of a long time ago when there was only one station and when micros/macros existed on main. I completely forgot about this, and I assume some things had been transferred, but I still have my head ban from 2017 (not sure if it was transferred or was a thing that I had gotten on my current account), regardless, if most of my playtime is on my alt or not, the banning admin still should have considered that, or checked that, considering it's listed (I assume in my notes).

Also, I forgot something that I was going to mention somewhere in this appeal. The security officer, or the admin, had claimed that I started shooting him before he welded me shut, which was his reason for welding me out, judging by the text. Now this was one of the things I was going to take an image of but had forgotten and closed the game.




I, personally, do not think that most of what I did was in the wrong, however, I should have given the security officer at least /some/ equipment so that they could do their job when they first asked.

I do also think that my IC in OOC wasn't warranted, nor was my salt, but that's all it simply was, it was just salt for getting banned for a (in my opinion) nonsense reason, while the other person got of scott free.

[RogueSteampunker]

>The banning admin has banned me for a week for something as minor as stealing stuff from another job, a ghost role no less.

I banned you cause you were effectively powergaming the charlie station ruin, nearly ruined the ruin for two other people, and had a whole host of notes to boot.

>The said person I stole from was a security officer on charlie station, who had decided to act like an asshole to me when they noticed I had stolen "their" stuff. After leaving the airlock to go recover the medical gear I attempted to re-enter the airlock, but what's this? The said security officer welded me out of the station for stealing his gear. I'm a reasonable person and if the security officer had actually talked to me instead of welding me out of the station completely, for something as simple as that, I might have opted to give them their gear back, or at least some of it.

If you were a perfectly reasonable person, why would it have taken them being patient with you literally fleeing out an airlock with the only void suit for you to realize you were holding every crewmember's gear? Why did we have to reach this point in the first place when you could've just handed their gear to them, instead of "holding onto it until you were done?"

>After this I decided "Fuck it, if he's going to be an asshole, then he can fuck off" essentially, and I went on a space walk around the station to the "umbilical" that linked the primary station body and the science station body. Now previously, I did do meta (since that's what ghost roles really are, it's hard to beat them without a little meta) and I had put the rechargers from the bridge and security in the umbilical on the main station, since I don't know how to put them through to the science wing. I broke the window down VIA shooting it with the laser gun, and I did a stupid and clicked past it expecting the laser shots to hit the window (as opposed to going through) and said laser shots hit the wall while the officer was standing inside. I assume this is where they AHelped at an attempted murder. Now I don't have any pictures of anything as I left the game (stupidly). I don't think I should get a ban for both ghost roles and the actual game for something as minor as taking another jobs gear.

So you literally admit to powergaming and metagaming the entire ruin with gear you shouldn't have been holding onto when the rest of the crew was present, and you still think you're not at fault in this situation?

>The banning admin also said this: http://prntscr.com/nls0rk

Your player panel says 48 hours, and you got notes dating back to 2016. Either something is borked codewise, or something is up on your end.

>This is, I assume, why I have been banned for so long, and from ghost roles as well, for something so minor as taking another "jobs" (remember, this is a ghost role) gear. I haven't been here for two days, and at the minimum, have been here since 2017 (reminded to me by my head of staff ban.)

No, you were banned because you attempted to powergame an entire ruin by yourself when others existed alongside you, actively ignore these people and paint their misunderstandings of your anti-social behavior as them being dicks, and then try to tell me that your mountain of similar notes don't add up to you eating a much harsher ban.

> Now in #staffbus it was brought up that I had an alt account which I notified zelda of a long time ago when there was only one station and when micros/macros existed on main. I completely forgot about this, and I assume some things had been transferred, but I still have my head ban from 2017 (not sure if it was transferred or was a thing that I had gotten on my current account), regardless, if most of my playtime is on my alt or not, the banning admin still should have considered that, or checked that, considering it's listed (I assume in my notes).

And let me ask, why would your time if you played upwards of two years help this case anymore than us assuming you were a dumb newbie? Either way makes it a really bad look on you.

>Also, I forgot something that I was going to mention somewhere in this appeal. The security officer, or the admin, had claimed that I started shooting him before he welded me shut, which was his reason for welding me out, judging by the text. Now this was one of the things I was going to take an image of but had forgotten and closed the game.

This seemingly was a mistake on their part, granted attack logs only document where a laser landed, and make finding out where shots were intended for hard.

>I, personally, do not think that most of what I did was in the wrong, however, I should have given the security officer at least /some/ equipment so that they could do their job when they first asked.

Powergamed the entire ruin by yourself. Ignored your fellow crew, even when you were carrying every last bit of loot they had. Justified them being a dick back as them being rude and obnoxious to you, and used it as a precendent to keep powergaming. You then proceed to act like we should ignore your previous notes and say you're fine. Yeah, seems to add up.

>I do also think that my IC in OOC wasn't warranted, nor was my salt, but that's all it simply was, it was just salt for getting banned for a (in my opinion) nonsense reason, while the other person got of scott free.

The other person didn't do jackshit to you, though. Why would we punish him for welding you outside after you literally stole everything and, for all he could know, fucked off into space never to be seen again? And nothing excuses IC in OOC, ever.

In the end, I'm ruling this appeal as a denial. Granted, if any other admin or headmin wants to dip their two cents into this or overrule that judgement, by all means.

[DexterDude]

So, tell me. On every other ruin, for example, hospital, people powergame it even more than they do charlie station. Why don't they get in trouble for that? I understand that I had another crewmember with me who decided to shut me out of the airlock when I had the only EVA gear and security gear because they wanted it and just couldn't go on without it. As for how long I have played, I assume that would matter considering what you said to me in Discord, since it made it seem like you banned me for the week because I had little play time and a lot of notes for that little playtime, as said, it would make me look like a troll or something similar with no intent to RP.

I do like citadel, I really do, but I don't think I deserve a /week ban/ for stealing another jobs gear. Said person also lied and said I tried to shoot them before they welded me out of the station entirely. Do you expect me to stay with them and give them their stuff back after they welded me outside with no other way in other than breaking windows? I do admit, again, that some things I did were wrong, most noticeably taking all of the security gear and refusing to give it to him at first, and yes it did seem like I was leaving him completely to fend for himself, but I went back to the charlie station airlock, waited outside of it (while they saw me) and got no response, so I headed back inside the only other way I could.

I'm bringing my other point up again. In every other ruin, vet office for example, people powergame through that like hell (unless they are new), yet they don't get punished? If this complaint about powergame/metagame was valid against me, then why isn't it valid against any other player who runs through the veterinarian ruins in a few minutes?

"The other person didn't do jackshit to you, though. Why would we punish him for welding you outside after you literally stole everything and, for all he could know, fucked off into space never to be seen again? And nothing excuses IC in OOC, ever."

You immediately contradict yourself here. You say he didn't do jackshit to me, yet right after you say he welded me out. I would call that something. I only stole the security gear, and would have left the EVA gear in engineering if he had not welded me out of the entire station. Yes, I could have fucked off into space never to be seen again, yet, I didn't. Even then, if I could have fucked off into space or did, what was their point for welding the airlock so I couldn't come back in without breaking in? Regardless, I came back and sat outside the airlock and outside of the window where they could see me. Given they didn't respond, I assumed (rightfully so) that they were not going to let me back in, so I let myself back in.

"No, you were banned because you attempted to powergame an entire ruin by yourself when others existed alongside you, actively ignore these people and paint their misunderstandings of your anti-social behavior as them being dicks, and then try to tell me that your mountain of similar notes don't add up to you eating a much harsher ban."

I didn't actively ignore said people, they decided to like an asshole to me, so I acted like an asshole right back at them. They yelled at me for taking the security gear and called me a cunt, so I told them to "piss off" and went to grab the medkit. I didn't steal the suit to go on my own, I took it to grab the medkit. Second, I didn't even try to sell you that my "mountain of similar notes" don't add up to me getting a much harsher ban. I had taken an assumption that the reason why I had been given such a large ban was because I "hadn't been here for more than 48 hours" as you have assumed.

"So you literally admit to powergaming and metagaming the entire ruin with gear you shouldn't have been holding onto when the rest of the crew was present, and you still think you're not at fault in this situation?"

You keep bringing up this "powergaming and metagaming", while it is completely true, I'm confused as to why you are bringing it up so much. It seems to me like you are grasping at threads so that I keep my ban. In what case do people who spawn in ruins NOT powergame or metagame? Hotel staff? They run off after spawning as security and starting up the hotel to go to the station. Why do they do this? Because playing with rocks by yourself in an incredibly small station with nobody to talk to isn't fun. Vetrinarians? Nine times out of ten the people that have played the ruin more than twice powergame to get the chainsaw and then fuck off, getting to the miners outpost in less than 10 minutes. How do they do this? They powergame the chainsaw, their other gear and then metagame south because that is where the mining outpost always is. Charlie station staff? Nine times out of ten the people that spawn there know the location of everything and start up the generator in less than a minute, clicking the shining red button in the bridge, stocking up on the security gear, unwrench the rechargers and move them somewhere else.

Guess what? It isn't metagaming either. If we bring this to an IC prospective, the charlie station staff already know the location of EVERYTHING, considering they would have likely been working there for more than a day and no doubt have been informed of the location of everything so they can do their jobs there to maximum effectiveness. If anything, charlie station staff knowing where everything is, is LESS powergaming/metagaming than any other ghost role.

Also, I'd like to see my mountain of notes that you keep mentioning. I'd prefer you to DM me them.

[RogueSteampunker]

>So, tell me. On every other ruin, for example, hospital, people powergame it even more than they do charlie station. Why don't they get in trouble for that? I understand that I had another crewmember with me who decided to shut me out of the airlock when I had the only EVA gear and security gear because they wanted it and just couldn't go on without it.

Considering the idea that those cases are the ones when no one is informed of the issue, it's mostly cause everyone tries to work together to complete it, rather than try to do it solo and wonder why the partner who now has nothing is suddenly pissed. You're skimming hard over the idea that there was someone else that was suffering hard cause you trying to powergame the ruin, and it's one of the big reasons I'm holding this ban up.

>As for how long I have played, I assume that would matter considering what you said to me in Discord, since it made it seem like you banned me for the week because I had little play time and a lot of notes for that little playtime, as said, it would make me look like a troll or something similar with no intent to RP.

Right, but the issue now is that we're now dealing with someone who has two years of experience, and still doesn't understand that other people are playing the game and will get pissed if you unjustly remove that from them without a word. Neither look is good on you, man.

>I do like citadel, I really do, but I don't think I deserve a /week ban/ for stealing another jobs gear. Said person also lied and said I tried to shoot them before they welded me out of the station entirely. Do you expect me to stay with them and give them their stuff back after they welded me outside with no other way in other than breaking windows? I do admit, again, that some things I did were wrong, most noticeably taking all of the security gear and refusing to give it to him at first, and yes it did seem like I was leaving him completely to fend for himself, but I went back to the charlie station airlock, waited outside of it (while they saw me) and got no response, so I headed back inside the only other way I could.

You literally admitted in that entire paragraph what you did wrong and why they'd react to you. You're literally arguing that the other guy should've been more sensible than you, and at that sensible to the degree of "forgiving you for being a fucking dick". None of that is going to fly in a case where your intention was to finish off the entire ruin solo.

>I'm bringing my other point up again. In every other ruin, vet office for example, people powergame through that like hell (unless they are new), yet they don't get punished? If this complaint about powergame/metagame was valid against me, then why isn't it valid against any other player who runs through the veterinarian ruins in a few minutes?

It's an issue because the entire reason you did what you did is due to powergame and metagame, and some of those actions included leaving two other players to be able to do nothing until you wiped out all the content. You were a dick, powergamed hard, and won't admit to your actions. That all clumped together is why you're permaed from ghost roles and got a weekban, so you could hopefully take a bit and realize that.

>You immediately contradict yourself here. You say he didn't do jackshit to me, yet right after you say he welded me out. I would call that something. I only stole the security gear, and would have left the EVA gear in engineering if he had not welded me out of the entire station. Yes, I could have fucked off into space never to be seen again, yet, I didn't. Even then, if I could have fucked off into space or did, what was their point for welding the airlock so I couldn't come back in without breaking in? Regardless, I came back and sat outside the airlock and outside of the window where they could see me. Given they didn't respond, I assumed (rightfully so) that they were not going to let me back in, so I let myself back in.

Once again, he had no idea what the fuck you're doing, and the only thing he did was rightfully react so you wouldn't steal more shit. You aren't the victim in this case, and you keep wanting to act like you are.

>I didn't actively ignore said people, they decided to like an asshole to me, so I acted like an asshole right back at them. They yelled at me for taking the security gear and called me a cunt, so I told them to "piss off" and went to grab the medkit. I didn't steal the suit to go on my own, I took it to grab the medkit. Second, I didn't even try to sell you that my "mountain of similar notes" don't add up to me getting a much harsher ban. I had taken an assumption that the reason why I had been given such a large ban was because I "hadn't been here for more than 48 hours" as you have assumed.

Even if they were acting like an ass to you, the fact that you decided to use that as justification to just keep rolling is no excuse. If he calls you a cunt and asks for the gear back, you should just drop it and ask him to be more courteous, not keep being worse and get surprised when they assume you're just being an ass. And once again for your time, please read the above.

>You keep bringing up this "powergaming and metagaming", while it is completely true, I'm confused as to why you are bringing it up so much. It seems to me like you are grasping at threads so that I keep my ban. In what case do people who spawn in ruins NOT powergame or metagame? Hotel staff? They run off after spawning as security and starting up the hotel to go to the station. Why do they do this? Because playing with rocks by yourself in an incredibly small station with nobody to talk to isn't fun. Vetrinarians? Nine times out of ten the people that have played the ruin more than twice powergame to get the chainsaw and then fuck off, getting to the miners outpost in less than 10 minutes. How do they do this? They powergame the chainsaw, their other gear and then metagame south because that is where the mining outpost always is. Charlie station staff? Nine times out of ten the people that spawn there know the location of everything and start up the generator in less than a minute, clicking the shining red button in the bridge, stocking up on the security gear, unwrench the rechargers and move them somewhere else.

Once again, the big issue isn't that you powergamed the ruin or knew how to do it in a moment. The issue is that you're trying to use this as justification for being an utter snob to your partners, fucking off into space, and trying to complete the ruin while you left both your partners SoL in the starting area. You aren't willing to take responsibility for the fact that you already broke the rule about not being a dick, and it's clear that you don't have any understanding of how ghost roles work if you think you're fine to do all of this. Also, using ghost roles like the hotel staff and the vets is a dumb comparison, since neither of them actively lock you in an area with nothing to do but wait for power to fail if one of the guys ends up being a dumbass. No one can take all the loot from the hotel, and the vet is already worthless as is.

>Guess what? It isn't metagaming either. If we bring this to an IC prospective, the charlie station staff already know the location of EVERYTHING, considering they would have likely been working there for more than a day and no doubt have been informed of the location of everything so they can do their jobs there to maximum effectiveness. If anything, charlie station staff knowing where everything is, is LESS powergaming/metagaming than any other ghost role.

It's metagaming cause you decided you were going to take all the sec gear, float on over to the rightmost area, and start clearing it out so the main conflict of the area was out of the way. You were metagaming it all pretty damn hard.

Once again, in the end, I'm holding the ban up. It's clear from this entire ordeal that you don't understand a lick of what you did wrong, and it's clear I won't be getting any further with you here.